December 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Closing a workspace windows

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Dec 23, 2008, at 9:26 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <Alexandre.Bergel(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Just a check. When I close a workspace I have a popup window asking >> for "Changes have not been saved, is it OK to cancel those changes?". >> I find this pretty annoying. I do not remember to have said "yes", >> even once. >> >> Am I the only one? > > I've also never answered yes. The best solution would be to store the > last 5 contents of the workspaces and close without confirmation. If > the user closed his workspace accidentally, he can still open a new > one, go to the menu and select one of the saved entries. How does that > sound? good suggestion! Stef > > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] New pharo-dev based on 10196

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I do not understand what you are saying. > p.s. One of the goals of LPF for all images is to provide a platform > that enables new code NOT to have to be backwardly compatible since > LPF > can take up the slack. I find it ironic that Pharo is suffering from > backward compataibility issues, and I have to put "respondsTo:" > just to > cover pharo's back.

Dec. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Closing a workspace windows

by Damien Cassou

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Alexandre Bergel <Alexandre.Bergel(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Just a check. When I close a workspace I have a popup window asking > for "Changes have not been saved, is it OK to cancel those changes?". > I find this pretty annoying. I do not remember to have said "yes", > even once. > > Am I the only one? I've also never answered yes. The best solution would be to store the last 5 contents of the workspaces and close without confirmation. If the user closed his workspace accidentally, he can still open a new one, go to the menu and select one of the saved entries. How does that sound? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Dec. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] New pharo-dev based on 10196

by Keith Hodges

Adrian Lienhard wrote: > Hi Damien, > > Let me try to understand your suggestion. You would use Sake-Packages > instead of a Universe. As far as I see, a Sake-Package models the > same information as one in a Universe (that is, name, description, > dependencies, source location, etc.), right? Hence, the main > difference is that this information can be managed with MC instead of > a XML. Furthermore, as you suggest, we could share package definitions > between different Pharo versions and even between Pharo and Squeak. > > Questions: > - Is there a GUI frontend for Sack-Packages like for Universes? I > think some way is needed to allow people more easily browser the > provided packages. If it didn't exist, which I expect, I assume it > would not be hard to build one. > Browsing is done via a Class browser. > - How do users that already have installed Sacke-Packages (I guess we > would pre-install it in the Pharo distro), get the most recent version > of the package definitions? Obviously, they should always > automatically get the most recent one. > Installer ss project: 'Packages'; install: 'Packages-Library'. or Packages current load: 'Packages'. or (for short) Packages update. > - How would you manage the differences between Squeak and Pharo > universes? PackagesDev is the superclass of both PackagesPharo01 and PackagesSqueak310 so you simply have to move the definitions to the appropriate place. I would hope that as many packages as possible stay compatible with both, and can remain in the PackagesDev superclass. However I expect to have to provide compatability features that enable Pharo reliant packages to be supported in Squeak. (i.e. Author) Keith

Dec. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] New pharo-dev based on 10196

by Keith Hodges

Keith Hodges wrote: > > >> BTW, when I try to install Seaside in Pharo using Packages I get the >> following error: PackageInfo>>doesNotUnderstand: #propertyAt:put: >> >> > In a standard squeak image there are several lists of "what is currently > installed", and these get out of sync quite easily. The PackageInfo and > PackagesOrganizer in MC1.5/LPF aims to provide a service to other tools > such as SM, Packages, and MC, keeping one master "what is installed" list. > > Keith > At present Sake/Packages does keep its own list of what is installed in (Packages provided), however it tells each PackageInfo which 'Packages' entry was used to load it. This in theory allows Packages to be unloaded and to be able to reconstruct its provided list from the PackageOrganizer master list. Packages also uses this to provide Monticello wth menus for "upgrade" and "unload" from 'Sake/Packages'. S/P uses the property dictionary as follows.... #addToPackageInfo " Here we tell the PackageInfo instance what name was used to load it. if a package appears in PackageInfo under a different name to which it appears in Packages, the PackageInfo name can be told to us via metadata #mcName: Example: 'Seaside' is in PackageInfo as 'Seaside2'. " I have changed this code to only use propertyAt:put on PackageInfo if it is there. Keith p.s. One of the goals of LPF for all images is to provide a platform that enables new code NOT to have to be backwardly compatible since LPF can take up the slack. I find it ironic that Pharo is suffering from backward compataibility issues, and I have to put "respondsTo:" just to cover pharo's back.

Dec. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] New pharo-dev based on 10196

by Keith Hodges

> > BTW, when I try to install Seaside in Pharo using Packages I get the > following error: PackageInfo>>doesNotUnderstand: #propertyAt:put: > In a standard squeak image there are several lists of "what is currently installed", and these get out of sync quite easily. The PackageInfo and PackagesOrganizer in MC1.5/LPF aims to provide a service to other tools such as SM, Packages, and MC, keeping one master "what is installed" list. Keith

Dec. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] New pharo-dev based on 10196

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi Damien, Let me try to understand your suggestion. You would use Sacke-Packages instead of a Universe. As far as I see, a Sacke-Package models the same information as one in a Universe (that is, name, description, dependencies, source location, etc.), right? Hence, the main difference is that this information can be managed with MC instead of a XML. Furthermore, as you suggest, we could share package definitions between different Pharo versions and even between Pharo and Squeak. Questions: - Is there a GUI frontend for Sack-Packages like for Universes? I think some way is needed to allow people more easily browser the provided packages. If it didn't exist, which I expect, I assume it would not be hard to build one. - How do users that already have installed Sacke-Packages (I guess we would pre-install it in the Pharo distro), get the most recent version of the package definitions? Obviously, they should always automatically get the most recent one. - How would you manage the differences between Squeak and Pharo universes? I think it is extremely important that the Pharo-1.0 universe contains only stable and working packages that do not conflict. I don't want to see unstable packages or packages that in some combinations do not load. Therefore, I don't think that managing a separate universe for Pharo is that much more work since the main work is to make sure that the packages that are added conform to our high standards. Cheers, Adrian BTW, when I try to install Seaside in Pharo using Packages I get the following error: PackageInfo>>doesNotUnderstand: #propertyAt:put: On Dec 22, 2008, at 10:35 , Damien Cassou wrote: > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> In a recent discussion with Marcus and Lukas we came to the >> conclusion >> that a package universe for Pharo 1.0 would be the best solution. > > As the main maintainer of the dev Universe for Squeak 3.9-3.10 and > Pharo, I have to disagree. Having a separate Universe for Pharo will > be a pain. For each new version of a package, I will have to publish > it to both the dev Universe and the Pharo universe. I advise you to > use Packages instead for which subclassing is possible between > distributions. That way, I could update one class and the other is > automatically updated. Packages loads very easily inside Pharo and > does not require overrides. > > Installer install: 'Packages' > > Have a look at the script here: http://installer.pbwiki.com/Packages-Pharo0:1 > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 22, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Inclusion of OB-Tools inside Pharo

by Matthias Berth

Hi Damien, I'm glad you started this discussion of OB-Tools. I have filed two issues that were more or less show-stoppers for me when using the new default OTDebugger included in the current pharo-dev: - Method source snippets cannot be evaluated in Debugger (OB Tools OTDebugger) http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=421 - Button 'over' produces error in OTDebugger http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=422 I'd like to help, but frankly I would not know where to start, e.g. learning about what happens when I step through a method. Cheers Matthias On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >> Sounds good. And in that case (OB Tools at the end of the list), I urge >> serious attention to having a notifier. Learning from history, and all >> that. > > Hi Bill, > > I decided to load OB-Tools (a reimplementation of some tools using the > ob framework) inside the pharo-dev images. I put OB-Tools inside the > list of packages that will be part of the official Pharo distribution. > This was a mistake because no discussion happened about this package > at all on this mailing list. I've just moved OB-Tools to the list of > pending packages. Now, we have to discuss (in this new thread): > > - Do we want an OB-based version of the tools inside Pharo? > - Do we want all tools implemented by Lukas or just some of them? > - What features are missing? > - What are the bugs? > - Who maintains this package? > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 22, 2008

[Pharo-project] Closing a workspace windows

by Alexandre Bergel

Just a check. When I close a workspace I have a popup window asking for "Changes have not been saved, is it OK to cancel those changes?". I find this pretty annoying. I do not remember to have said "yes", even once. Am I the only one? Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 22, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Universes and Installer?

by Bill Schwab

Stef, That explains a lot. The Seaside installation was/is helpful, but otherwise I will try to forget it exists. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/22/08 1:47 PM >>> Scriptloader is our internal code to publish release. It is not for public consumption. It works well but only for us. For the rest we should Installer and I'm waiting damien to write some text on Sake and Packages so that I finally understand them. Stef On Dec 22, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > It makes a lot of sense to use MC, universes, etc. rather than re- > write > them; no argument there. Would it help to roll ScriptLoader into > Installer? Installer _looks_ to me as though it tries to be a > much-needed facade over the various options for sharing code. The > problem is complex, so must be the solution, but I think it would help > to have a single entry point even if it is merely a facade. > > Bill > aka Confused Smalltalker :) > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> alexandre(a)bergel.eu 12/22/08 10:39 AM >>> > Works. Thanks! > > Alexandre > > > On 22 Dec 2008, at 12:26, Damien Cassou wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel >> <Alexandre.Bergel(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> If I execute "Installer universe" in a workspace, an error >>> "Universes >>> code not present" is signaled . >>> Does this mean that only a subset of Installer is present in Pharo- >>> Core? >> >> >> No, you have the complete Installer package. However, Installer needs >> some back-ends. Depending on what you want to, you will need >> SqueakMap, Monticello, Sake and Universes. >> >>> On the Installer squeaksource repository there is a package >>> Universes. >>> It looks like to be the right candidate. However, some extensions on >>> StringSocket need to be present. I do not know where to get them >>> from. >> >> You could use the dev images but I guess you won't do it. So, just >> execute: >> >> ScriptLoader new installingUniverse >> >>> http://www.squeaksource.com/Installer.html does not say much on >>> this. >>> Keith? Do I miss something? >> >> >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 22, 2008