October 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Re: about ifEmptyOrNil:

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 6, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > I agree with Lukas, and the other comments on the naming that really > you imply a test for nil first before the empty. My experience with > coming across and recalling heavy usage is that the receiver is always > a String. I took it to be a convenience (laziness) for typing the > longer form during string processing that is perhaps written in a > procedural manner. If the receiver is treated like a collection, i.e. > using do: select: etc then an empty collection is a fine null object. > Don't mind it being dropped, but perhaps it could remain on String? > Is the convenience justified? I can imagine that there are some cases where you want to make a distinction between no result and empty result from an UI perspective. But I learned something from this thread. And probably we should deprecated it. stef

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Re: about ifEmptyOrNil:

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> The arguments to not remove it are inertia as usual. > I see 163 senders in the 10074 image and probably many more in > Squeak packages. > Le ver est dans le fruit. I can understand that to manage cancel button the UI returns nil Now I do not see the gain with always returning '' even on cancel. > If you want to remove such message, it would be good to have a base of > refactoring rules to be applied on Squeak packages so that they > become Pharo > friendly. Sort of one-click compatibility automaton. Yes I will have probably to support that + a nice deprecated warning. On VW adrian kuhn did a deprecation that walk the stack and invoke the refactoring browser on the fly. This is something that we should do too. Stef

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Polymorph

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

slick :) Stef On Oct 7, 2008, at 4:03 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: > Just to let you know there are some newer versions on SqueakSource. > Start of work on a "Watery 2" theme (more spotted cat like :-) ) > using CompositeFillStyles with form-based graphics. > A few other improvements too, check the version notes. > > Regards, Gary. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] about idiots :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 7, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Keith Hodges wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> Hi marcus >> >> Try to stop thinking that making errors is bad. >> This is a christian ideology that may block your way of looking at >> the >> world in a open way. > Not true at all. It might be a catholic ideology, but its not > christian. > > Christianity is about love, faith, and redemption. Not fear, fear is > the > opposite of faith. The whole point of christianity is to remove fear > from the equation, even the ultimate fear, fear of death. Ok sorry. catholic then :) > If you are a parent, would you want to provide a safe space to learn > and > grow, or to have your kids live in fear of making mistakes. > > I have counselled many perfectionists, and those who have suffered at > the hands of same, over the past few years, and God, being a father, > always tells them that it is ok to make mistakes, and not to be > afraid. > He is big enough to cover us and help us to work through the > consequences of our mistakes should they occur. Given that emotional > support, it is ok to make mistakes. > > >> >> So do not let you fun gets spoiled by this oversimplistic view on the >> world. >> > Agreed one would not want to oversimplify by blaming some "ideology" > for > all our problems. > > Keith > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 7, 2008

[Pharo-project] update10074 hashMappedBy: not removed as advertised

by nicolas cellier

Hello all, second try to post this message, sorry if it duplicates. When I select hashMappedBy: in the 10074 Workspace and press alt+b I can still see 5 implementors. Seems like a change has been forgotten...

Oct. 7, 2008

[Pharo-project] Re: Some clearifications

by Markus Fritsche

Adrian Lienhard schrieb: > In other words, this is not a version you want to use to run a power plant. Can you please put me on the list for the day this changes? I'm having a power plant in my backyard and I'm still searching something to run it with... scnr, Markus P.S.: I hope you forgive the white noise, but in this case, I just cnr...

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Some clearifications

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi Mike, I agree. We have discussed this in one or two threads before, but it might not be obvious for people joining Pharo. At the moment there is only an alpha version of Pharo available, and as usual in an alpha phase, there exist known bugs and changes are introduced that may break. In other words, this is not a version you want to use to run a power plant. However, this is only a temporary situation. As soon as we produce a first stable release, we will maintain this release and apply critical bugfixes, but no new features are added. This will be the version that people should be able to depend on for the use of Pharo in production. At the same time a new unstable version will be started to continue the development of Pharo. I think, we could then have two update streams, one for the stable and one for the unstable version. Cheers, Adrian On Oct 7, 2008, at 00:07 , Michael Roberts wrote: > given what I consider to be constraints - and these are not complaints > at all, just observation which I am quite happy with > 1) 3 harvesters > 2) minimal software support for sophisticated branch or release > management > > I wonder if it would be better to put more effort into expectation > management amongst the community. i.e define and document what the > update stream represents, and what a 'release' represents. I think it > is fantastic we have an update stream. It shows progress, and allows > interested folk to test the integration by the harvesters and provide > feedback. I do not consider each update to be a 'release' or stable. > It is not blessed to me like updates that used to come out of Squeak > Central. To me it just shows progress, even if it introduces bugs. A > bug can be reported on the list/tracker, feedback can help the next > update. each step we move forwards, in a small controlled fashion. > > Perhaps once a milestone is reached, or some considered point in the > future - a release is declared and built. Perhaps people who don't > want to be on the development-edge do not update from the update > stream until a time that it is recommended. Updates are addictive I > find, but I have set my expectations and enjoy the progress. > > just my thoughts, I would prefer the harvesting and update process is > not complicated trying to satisfy too many requirements. From my > point of view it is important we can test the integration represented > in the update stream, since there should be a way that we can scale > the testing amongst a wider group outside the harvesters. > > It is perhaps interesing, (or not), that I was discussing something > similar with Yann the other day. We were talking about MCC and what > exactly it was - we did not really know. The next day a post on the > Seaside list mentioned the move to universes in that context and > constraints. Yann and I were wondering if it would be useful (or not) > to have a bit more of the model of Envy maps in Monticello. We did > not have any great ideas, just a feeling that Universes, MC, MCC, SM, > Squeak SVN etc just demonstrate many forces that pull the needs for > configuration management and version control in different directions. > I think trying to solve this general problem: updates, branches, > releases, backporting, distribution, approval, integration, etc is > just very hard. My suggestion with Pharo would not be to do anything > particularly clever at the moment as long as everyone knows what is to > be expected from the current process. That way we keep moving > forward without needing to reinvent too much in one go. > > cheers, > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 7, 2008

[Pharo-project] MethodFinder

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi marcus removed methodFinder and I understand the reasons (lot of list of old method selectors hardcoded and not maintained). Still I think that MethodFinder was a really cool tool. So is there somebody that would like to have a look and take an old pharo version, package MethodFinder and clean it. This would be great. Stef and Marcus

Oct. 7, 2008

RE: [Pharo-project] about idiots :)

by Ramon Leon

> > Try to stop thinking that making errors is bad. > > This is a christian ideology that may block your way of > looking at the > > world in a open way. > Not true at all. It might be a catholic ideology, but its not > christian. > > Christianity is about love, faith, and redemption. Not fear, > fear is the > opposite of faith. The whole point of christianity is to remove fear > from the equation, even the ultimate fear, fear of death. You mean except the fear of eternal damnation in hell, the fear of an all knowing God who spies on you constantly knowing everything you do and promising you will be held accountable for it all someday? No, I do believe Christianity is all about the fear! It has its virtues as well, but lets not deny that fear is a major component of Christianity. Of course, this has nothing to do with Pharo, but happy to take this offline! > Keith Ramon

Oct. 7, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] about idiots :)

by Keith Hodges

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi marcus > > Try to stop thinking that making errors is bad. > This is a christian ideology that may block your way of looking at the > world in a open way. Not true at all. It might be a catholic ideology, but its not christian. Christianity is about love, faith, and redemption. Not fear, fear is the opposite of faith. The whole point of christianity is to remove fear from the equation, even the ultimate fear, fear of death. If you are a parent, would you want to provide a safe space to learn and grow, or to have your kids live in fear of making mistakes. I have counselled many perfectionists, and those who have suffered at the hands of same, over the past few years, and God, being a father, always tells them that it is ok to make mistakes, and not to be afraid. He is big enough to cover us and help us to work through the consequences of our mistakes should they occur. Given that emotional support, it is ok to make mistakes. > > So do not let you fun gets spoiled by this oversimplistic view on the > world. > Agreed one would not want to oversimplify by blaming some "ideology" for all our problems. Keith

Oct. 7, 2008