October 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] [ANN] new 10095 prebuild image

by Torsten Bergmann

Marcus wrote: >one-click will come soon, too. Will this be based on the newest VM sources so we can close issue 231? (I typically use the full screen mode to forget about the boring OS ;) Bill wrote: >might be nice to have FFI, or at least the plugins would at least vote for the plugins. FFI itself could be loaded if required. Thx Torsten -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/wasistshortview.php?mc=sv_ext_mf@gmx

Oct. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] One click feature list request/question

by Alexandre Bergel

>> Squeak talk to Java > > Maybe "JavaConnect" or "JNIPort" using FFI can can help here in the > future (see [2]) JavaConnect is pretty easy to use and works quite well. But there is no port to Squeak as far as I am aware of. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Oct. 16, 2008

[Pharo-project] One click feature list request/question

by Torsten Bergmann

>Go Eliot, go! Any news from the "new FFI" front? Last thing I've heard was [1] >Squeak talk to Java Maybe "JavaConnect" or "JNIPort" using FFI can can help here in the future (see [2]) Bye Torsten [1] http://www.nabble.com/Re:--squeak-dev--Re:-About-Eliot-FFi-changes-p1953668… [2] http://astares.blogspot.com/2008/04/javaconnect-java-assmalltalkvalue.html -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/wasistshortview.php?mc=sv_ext_mf@gmx

Oct. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] One click feature list request/question

by Antony Blakey

I did some work to integrate LLVM and Clang with VW. I'm moving this to Squeak. For the platforms supported by LLVM this allows inline C/ ObjC/C++ (although C++ is early days yet), dynamically compiled and loaded, and highly optimized platform-independent SSA-based native code generation. As a side effect it can provide an optimized FFI based on jitted stubs/trampolines. I did this (trivially) for callout in VW, but didn't bother about callbacks. You can also use Clang to parse platform headers (and code), which you can obviously include in inline C, and also produce a parse tree with various degrees of semantic analysis, which you can then reflect on. Clang goes to extraordinary lengths to maintain source correspondence, which is an added bonus in interactive environment such as Smalltalk. Eliot's aware of that work. AFAIK he decided against using LLVM for Cog because Qwak wanted something that didn't increase the VM footprint, although he probably had some other reasons as well. PICs were an issue he raised, but that can be dealt with - in fact, by using runtime type recording at the call sites, plus some techniques used in multi-method dispatch for CLOS, you can optimize for both sides of a double dispatch, which would given at the very least highly optimized numeric operations. LLVM also does cool link time optimization and inlining, and I've got this (largely unformed) idea that the type-based specialisation could possibly trickle back along a call chain, resulting in block-aggregation that would expose more opportunity for optimization by delimiting regions of known type information. It might be however that such regions never practically get above a certain size. I'd like to investigate using LLVM to make plugins that are dynamically compiled and loaded (i.e. not via VMMaker). A further thought is that the VM could be regenerated, compiled and switched whilst running. This leads obviously to a *very* basic cross-platform headless VM that regenerates itself upon loading, optimized for the platform it's running on. Of course you'd cache this. Benefits of LLVM/Clang over roll-your-own native code generation are a) the significant optimization systems; b) cross-platform code generation; and c) dynamic C-family integration. And finally, LLVM/Clang are two of the most beautifully, cleanly architected and written pieces of C++ code I've ever seen. No, I'm not a contributor :) Anyone else interested in this? On 16/10/2008, at 6:33 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Talking about interoperability. I did some experiment a while ago > about making Squeak talk to Java using sockets. Java classes are > accessible within Squeak, and reflection is used to invoke methods. > People interested in this could ask for further info. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > On 16 Oct 2008, at 09:55, Lukas Renggli wrote: > >>> But then, the new FFI of Eliot seems to be far, far better then >>> the old >>> one. >>> It would be nice to have that instead. E.g, it supports callbacks >>> nicely >>> and >>> is much faster. >> >> Go Eliot, go! It is crucial that Smalltalk gets better bindings with >> the outside world. It should be easy (as with Python or Ruby) to >> integrate some external C library. >> >> I hope the new FFI doesn't need to hack the Smalltalk language and >> compiler. >> >> Cheers, >> Lukas >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project Antony Blakey ------------- CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd Ph: 0438 840 787 When I hear somebody sigh, 'Life is hard,' I am always tempted to ask, 'Compared to what?' -- Sydney Harris

Oct. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] dual changesorter

by Adrian Lienhard

ok, I can exchange the two in the menu. Adrian On Oct 15, 2008, at 23:35 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > hi adrian > > the dual change sorter is better than the simple one (I never used > that one) > but a lot the other since it allows you to copy changes between cs. > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] One click feature list request/question

by Alexandre Bergel

Talking about interoperability. I did some experiment a while ago about making Squeak talk to Java using sockets. Java classes are accessible within Squeak, and reflection is used to invoke methods. People interested in this could ask for further info. Cheers, Alexandre On 16 Oct 2008, at 09:55, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> But then, the new FFI of Eliot seems to be far, far better then the >> old >> one. >> It would be nice to have that instead. E.g, it supports callbacks >> nicely >> and >> is much faster. > > Go Eliot, go! It is crucial that Smalltalk gets better bindings with > the outside world. It should be easy (as with Python or Ruby) to > integrate some external C library. > > I hope the new FFI doesn't need to hack the Smalltalk language and > compiler. > > Cheers, > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Oct. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] One click feature list request/question

by Lukas Renggli

> But then, the new FFI of Eliot seems to be far, far better then the old > one. > It would be nice to have that instead. E.g, it supports callbacks nicely > and > is much faster. Go Eliot, go! It is crucial that Smalltalk gets better bindings with the outside world. It should be easy (as with Python or Ruby) to integrate some external C library. I hope the new FFI doesn't need to hack the Smalltalk language and compiler. Cheers, Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Oct. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] One click feature list request/question

by Marcus Denker

On 15.10.2008, at 22:53, Bill Schwab wrote: > Hello all, > > Please feel free to say "that's going in the wrong direction," but it > might be nice to have FFI, or at least the plugins, lurking in the > one-click file structure. > I always thought that not having FFI in the Squeak image was a strange decision... It seemed to be very important to Andreas back then, so we did it. And it was the wrong thing to do, IMHO. But then, the new FFI of Eliot seems to be far, far better then the old one. It would be nice to have that instead. E.g, it supports callbacks nicely and is much faster. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker

Oct. 16, 2008

[Pharo-project] dual changesorter

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

hi adrian the dual change sorter is better than the simple one (I never used that one) but a lot the other since it allows you to copy changes between cs. Stef

Oct. 15, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing default fonts

by Lukas Renggli

> So I suggest to change the default to Accujen, keep the current default > Accuny, and remove all other fonts. The script below does this so you can > try it out if you are interested. It frees roughly 2k, but eventually with > more cleanup it will have a bigger impact because the TT font instances are > still referenced from other places in the system. +1 I like what the script changes. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Oct. 15, 2008