On 21 May 2024, at 09:31, Nicolas Graves via Pharo-dev pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org wrote:

Hi Pharo community,

I'm trying to package pharo in the GNU Guix linux distribution. Since
the distribution is focused on reproducibility and avoids using binary
code when possible, for that I need to reproduce the bootstrapping steps
that are embedded in Pharo. I understand from some developper online
comment that this is possible.

I've started to work on this and it seems feasible, at least I get the
dependency loop, what I've some difficulty is to get precisely when it's
possible to get started.

  -------------------
  |                 v

pharo VM            pharo
∧                |
-------------------

If I'm correct,

• bootstrapping is very clear after version ~7.0.0, and with a proper
  build, just follow the distribution numbers in wget's with a cmake
  build-system.
• for earlier versions, there's the repository
  https://github.com/pharo-project/PharoBootstrap
  that seems (git history) to be able to go back to Pharo 30.
• I understand that at some point, Squeak and Pharo used to have the
  same VM. I have access to a squeak-vm 4.10.2.2614 in Guix, and I've seen
  this is in Pharo's ftp files, so I guess I can start there.

What I need:

• Some indication about the first version of Pharo that I'm able to
  build purely from squeak-vm, and where to find its source code
  (git+version or commit if possible, I seem to only be able to find its
  binaries currently in phero's ftp files).
• Any useful information for early bootstrap steps.

Some useful information on my side:

• During the build process in Guix, we can't download data, so the
  entire bootstrap chain has to be explicited at once, hence the need to
  go back to the beginning in this case.

Thanks in advance!

--
Best regards,
Nicolas Graves

On 21 May 2024, at 09:31, Nicolas Graves via Pharo-dev pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org wrote:

Hi Pharo community,

I'm trying to package pharo in the GNU Guix linux distribution. Since
the distribution is focused on reproducibility and avoids using binary
code when possible, for that I need to reproduce the bootstrapping steps
that are embedded in Pharo. I understand from some developper online
comment that this is possible.

I've started to work on this and it seems feasible, at least I get the
dependency loop, what I've some difficulty is to get precisely when it's
possible to get started.

  -------------------
  |                 v

pharo VM            pharo
∧                |
-------------------

If I'm correct,

• bootstrapping is very clear after version ~7.0.0, and with a proper
  build, just follow the distribution numbers in wget's with a cmake
  build-system.
• for earlier versions, there's the repository
  https://github.com/pharo-project/PharoBootstrap
  that seems (git history) to be able to go back to Pharo 30.
• I understand that at some point, Squeak and Pharo used to have the
  same VM. I have access to a squeak-vm 4.10.2.2614 in Guix, and I've seen
  this is in Pharo's ftp files, so I guess I can start there.

What I need:

• Some indication about the first version of Pharo that I'm able to
  build purely from squeak-vm, and where to find its source code
  (git+version or commit if possible, I seem to only be able to find its
  binaries currently in phero's ftp files).
• Any useful information for early bootstrap steps.

Some useful information on my side:

• During the build process in Guix, we can't download data, so the
  entire bootstrap chain has to be explicited at once, hence the need to
  go back to the beginning in this case.

Thanks in advance!

--
Best regards,
Nicolas Graves

Hi

Why can’t you use the latest Pharo vm and Pharo12?
We worked like mad over the years to get a much better system.
Now why do you need to bootstrap Pharo because you can just use a bootstrapped image
and get pharo working and running?

On 2024-05-21 09:34, stephane ducasse wrote:

Hi

Why can’t you use the latest Pharo vm and Pharo12?
We worked like mad over the years to get a much better system.
Now why do you need to bootstrap Pharo because you can just use a bootstrapped image
and get pharo working and running?

Guix is not using the FHS filesystem so it would be a mess to try and
bootstrap from binaries. On top of that, they focus on
reproducibility. The standard on this end is to try and not use any
binary code if it's possible to build if from source, and yes, it
requires working like mad over the years. The website is currently down,
but there's an article about how they get all 30k packages from only a
single tiny binary file.

Some of the guys behind Guix are also involved in bootstrappable.org

I understand and share that the current system is much better, it's just
that to comply with their standard, that's what I have to do.

What I understand from there it that it's feasible:
https://x.com/estebanlm/status/1042719107307712514

I'll do the work if feasible, I just can't find the information where I
should start from, hence my email.

Best,
Nicolas

S

On 21 May 2024, at 09:31, Nicolas Graves via Pharo-dev pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org wrote:

Hi Pharo community,

I'm trying to package pharo in the GNU Guix linux distribution. Since
the distribution is focused on reproducibility and avoids using binary
code when possible, for that I need to reproduce the bootstrapping steps
that are embedded in Pharo. I understand from some developper online
comment that this is possible.

I've started to work on this and it seems feasible, at least I get the
dependency loop, what I've some difficulty is to get precisely when it's
possible to get started.

 -------------------
 |                 v

pharo VM            pharo
∧                |
-------------------

If I'm correct,

• bootstrapping is very clear after version ~7.0.0, and with a proper
  build, just follow the distribution numbers in wget's with a cmake
  build-system.
• for earlier versions, there's the repository
  https://github.com/pharo-project/PharoBootstrap
  that seems (git history) to be able to go back to Pharo 30.
• I understand that at some point, Squeak and Pharo used to have the
  same VM. I have access to a squeak-vm 4.10.2.2614 in Guix, and I've seen
  this is in Pharo's ftp files, so I guess I can start there.

What I need:

• Some indication about the first version of Pharo that I'm able to
  build purely from squeak-vm, and where to find its source code
  (git+version or commit if possible, I seem to only be able to find its
  binaries currently in phero's ftp files).
• Any useful information for early bootstrap steps.

Some useful information on my side:

• During the build process in Guix, we can't download data, so the
  entire bootstrap chain has to be explicited at once, hence the need to
  go back to the beginning in this case.

Thanks in advance!

--
Best regards,
Nicolas Graves

Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr
06 30 93 66 73

"If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do differently? ....ESPECIALLY if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth.” Calvin & Hobbes

--
Best regards,
Nicolas Graves