[Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

Steve Quezadas steveeq1 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 20 01:03:36 EDT 2019


Yeah, I agree, what I say or do outside the Pharo channels is completely my
business. this 'code' has no place here. Hell, Richard Stallman got
deprived out of his LIFE'S WORK over a technical definition of what
constitutes statutory rape, which is silly.

Please remove this nonsense out of the pharo community, it has no place
here.

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 9:45 PM James Foster <Smalltalk at jgfoster.net> wrote:

> First, my guess is that it was part of the thing they copied and that
> aspect might not have gotten as much thought as you’ve given it.
>
> Second, this is an international organization and maybe the intent (by the
> original author(s)) was to extend the reach of the NZ/UK/EU-style laws to
> apply to those in jurisdictions with less strict speech codes or where the
> legal remedy is impractical. That is, maybe the author(s) don’t feel it is
> sufficient to tell someone who is harassed, “We can’t do anything about it.
> Hire a NZ lawyer.”
>
> These are speculations on my part and, as a US citizen, I’m partial to our
> free speech protections. I’d prefer to have private organizations practice
> ostracization rather than have the government put rude people in jail. I
> say this, not to start a political discussion, but to point out that some
> harassment that would be illegal in NZ might not have a legal remedy if the
> actor was a US citizen.
>
> In any case, I found that when I submitted a PR then something happened
> pretty quickly. So, I’d suggest that you channel your analysis and concerns
> into a proposed improvement.
>
> James
>
> On Sep 19, 2019, at 8:44 PM, Richard O'Keefe <raoknz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On the whole, the new code is pretty good.
>
> There was one thing that troubled me, though:
> "even outside of Pharo's public communication channels."
> What business is it of the Pharo Board what anyone says in any
> other community?  I've heard too many cases where A says something
> to B and C complains about it as harassment when B didn't mind.
> I have personally known people *affectionately* address each other
> in terms that most would consider a deadly insult.
>
> My behaviour in all digital media is subject to the
> Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015.  See
> http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0063/latest/whole.html
> which extends the Harassment Act 1997.  See
> http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1997/0092/latest/whole.html
> for a definition of harassment.
> If I harass anyone according to these Acts, they have a legal remedy.
> I understand the the UK and the EU have similar laws.
>
> So I don't understand why the Pharo Board want to extend their reach.
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 07:21, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I’m talking on behalf of the Pharo Board here.
>> As start, we accepted Serge’s proposition without actually discussing it
>> much because we didn’t think it was going to be really a problem. Our
>> community has been self-regulating since the beginning and we were doing it
>> fine until now. Once or twice we (the board) needed to act, but never had a
>> real situation as the ones the CoC tries to cover.
>> So, we can say we opened the umbrella without rain, just in case.
>>
>> Now, after observe the situation, we have decided to retract the code.
>> But sadly, we cannot just remove it and let things continue as before
>> because as it’s know “it you open a can or worms, you will need a bigger
>> can to put them back in”. Which means now we need a code of conduct.
>>
>> So we are going to take the simplest one we could find that still can
>> serve our community, you can see it here:
>>
>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4660
>>
>> This PR will be accepted, but as anything in our community, you can still
>> discuss it and propose modifications.
>> Just remember be respectful of people disagreeing with your ideas :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Esteban
>>
>> PS: As personal note: I blocked a github user that insulted a member of
>> our community, a user who did not had history with us (or any other visible
>> project), who did not had a name or ways to contact him so I assumed it was
>> just another troll. Now, he identifies himself here... I will unblock him,
>> but that does not means the kind of disrespectful messages he sent can be
>> sent :)
>>
>>
>> On 19 Sep 2019, at 19:47, Ben Coman <btc at openinworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> makes me wonder whether he's such a machiavellian sociopath, or a useful
>> idiot.
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 23:07, Eugen Leitl via Pharo-users <
>> pharo-users at lists.pharo.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Let's see, I've posted one email to this list describing the dangers
>>> of abusing CoCs
>>
>>
>> I guess you refer to this one...
>> > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 19:39, Eugen Leitl via Pharo-users <
>> pharo-users at lists.pharo.org> wrote:
>> > I agree. Technical people are too easy to exploit by malignant
>> manipulators of people.
>> > All too often they don't even realize it after the fact.
>>
>> Thats fairly benign and doubt it had anything to do with being blocked on
>> github.
>>
>>
>>
>>> and one post to GitHub describing the motivations of
>>> people who introduce CoCs, and immediately get banned on GitHub from
>>>
>>
>> Note, the board member who blocked your GIthub account and deleted your
>> post there
>> also voiced their opinion as being...
>>     For me a "welcome and be nice" should be enough to just continue as
>> before.
>>     I find the introduction of CoC was a noise we didn't need,
>>     our community was doing well and self-regulated without problem until
>> now.
>>
>> So in spite of your implication, I doubt there is anything sinister from
>> the CoC in play here.
>> Comments such as  "makes me wonder whether he's such a machiavellian
>> sociopath, or a useful idiot."
>> have been consistently condemned years before thought of a CoC.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm getting called a troll and a nobody in public by members of the
>>> project,
>>
>>
>> Its not that you are a "nobody", but actually you were "unknown to us"
>> two days ago.
>> Maybe you don't know Serge, but we've know him for years and his good
>> work including governance of our GSoC participation
>> so please consider why such comments from a newcomer may be dealt with as
>> a troll.
>> Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by
>> people actively applying them, visibly, in public.
>>
>> Now personally I'm not going to condemn you on one slip.
>> I've been told to pull my head in before and they were right - I was
>> venting after a bad day at work.  But no one held it against me long.
>> These nontechnical and emotion-charge debates are infrequent and I hope
>> get a chance to see how things normally run once we are past it.
>>
>> cheers -ben
>>
>>
>>
>
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