[Pharo-users] Code of Conduct

PBKResearch peter at pbkresearch.co.uk
Thu Sep 19 09:32:17 EDT 2019



You may be right, though I don’t think so. But ‘You have been warned’ was aimed at me; I’m sure of that.


Peter Kenny


From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces at lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
Sent: 19 September 2019 14:26
To: pharo-users at lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct



I think that the comment was referred to the comment made on the PR (not on this list) that was insulting Serge (which I will not repeat). It has been deleted now and only Stephan's response remains[1]. As you can see is addressing someone different, who has no contributions and no name and seemed to create the account just to insult and you can see by his/her empty account without any info and any contributions[2].

[1] https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637#issuecomment-532815478
[2] https://github.com/eleitl

So, in my interpretation, Stephan's comment was referred to the user at [2] and Esteban warning was referred to the closing of the issue because of it, so the "you" in the warning was not the singular "you", but the plural one. Because conversation has been split in two places, these mistakes can be done. I think that you raised a valid concern in a civilized manner, are a recognized member of the community and did not insulted Serge, so the comments were not addressing you.

This can be a very sensible approach, as the discussion on the list so far have shown, so the more clarity we can have to elevate the conversation and be respectful with the participants, the better.



On 19/09/19 8:02 a. m., PBKResearch wrote:

I think the comments about “someone that has no name, no repositories, not anything that makes you think is a real member of the community or just a troll” are directed at me. My e-mail address is based on the trading name I used at the time I was doing consulting work; my actual name is Peter Kenny, and I use it to sign everything I post in this forum. I have no repositories, because the only code I write is of no general interest. As a member of the community, I was invited by Stephane Ducasse to work up a post I had written to help someone into a pamphlet on web scraping; I think that is still available in Pharo publications. So I am not a troll; I am an elderly but still active user of Pharo, and concerned about developments. There is an English saying about pots and kettles, which Mr Lorenzano might consider before making personal attacks on me.


I did not say anything insulting about Serge Stinckwich. I asked whether he acted with authority when he posted the code, because I genuinely don’t know what official position he has in the Pharo world. I still don’t know whether the code is in effect as a result of being posted.


‘You have been warned’ seems like a threat. I do not like being threatened. If comments here, which are relevant to the topic and expressed in moderate language, are no longer welcome, I shall absent myself without waiting to be banned.


Peter Kenny


From: Pharo-users  <mailto:pharo-users-bounces at lists.pharo.org> <pharo-users-bounces at lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano
Sent: 19 September 2019 12:49
To: Any question about pharo is welcome  <mailto:pharo-users at lists.pharo.org> <pharo-users at lists.pharo.org>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Code of Conduct



On 19 Sep 2019, at 12:22, PBKResearch <peter at pbkresearch.co.uk <mailto:peter at pbkresearch.co.uk> > wrote:


I don’t think this conversation can be closed while things are in the present unclear situation. The github entry at  <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/Pharo8.0/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/Pharo8.0/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md is still there, and has been there since last May. The github discussion on  <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4637 was abruptly closed by Stephane Ducasse, after some intemperate comments about Serge Stinckwich. 


Yes it can be closed. 

As we will close ANY thread/issue/PR that directly insults one of the members of the community. 

Even more important: We can close it if thread has been highjacked by someone that has no name, no repositories, not anything that makes you think is a real member of the community or just a troll.


Members can do things right or wrong, as they are human beings. But emitting opinions in the way they were emitted about what they did is a no-go. 


So yes, you can discuss anything you want. 

But I personally will moderate any thread that does not discusses things in a civilised way.


So you have been warned :)




PS: I will also remember you that the purpose of this community is to make Pharo a great development environment. 

And we are all here because we all pursue that.

 We create a software that is open source and wants to have some social value added.


This is therefore the only place questions can be asked.


We now know that Serge posted the Code without prior discussion with the board. Did he have authority to do this on behalf of the Pharo community? Does the fact that he did so mean it is officially adopted by the community – not just for this mailing list, but for all Pharo activities? If Serge did not have authority, shouldn’t it just be removed, at least until the board have discussed it?


The PR mentioned above was a proposal by James Foster that, if we need a code of conduct, it should be the ACM code. The PR has now been closed. Does that mean that James’s proposal has been rejected? If so, why?


If the conversation is closed now, that means that we are tacitly accepting that the code is there and in force, and also tacitly accepting how it got there. What is necessary is for the board collectively, or someone representing the board, to tell us what the situation is and what is going to happen next – preferably with justifications.


Peter Kenny 


From: Pharo-users < <mailto:pharo-users-bounces at lists.pharo.org> pharo-users-bounces at lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Steve Quezadas
Sent: 19 September 2019 03:35
To: Any question about pharo is welcome < <mailto:pharo-users at lists.pharo.org> pharo-users at lists.pharo.org>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] R: Code of Conduct


Yeah, I agree. Why is this even here? The thing I like about this maillist is that its very community oriented and everyone here helps each other. It's devoid of all the political-soapbox nonsense that I would find on, say, facebook. Which is why I don't deal with that platform anymore. 


And most of this is common sense anyway. Yeah, don't harass people and make fun of them or whatever, Like most people on this list doesn't already know that. Im very vocal about certain political and social opinions, am not ashamed about my opinions, am open about it, is currently "unpopular" but don't discuss them here because it's offtopic and I don't want to piss off people in any event. I don't want it turning into another facebook basically. 


I think we should all close this conversation, it's offtopic and not relevant to any problems this list has in any meaningful  way. 


- Steve


On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:07 PM Kasper Østerbye < <mailto:kasper.osterbye at gmail.com> kasper.osterbye at gmail.com> wrote:

When I read the Code of conduct which is part of Pharo, my reaction was "OK, I don't expect to run into trouble over that one, so no worries".  

After having read the discussion here I would rather it was not there.

-- Kasper 


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