[Pharo-dev] float & fraction equality bug
Nicolas Cellier
nicolas.cellier.aka.nice at gmail.com
Thu Nov 9 15:55:06 EST 2017
2017-11-09 20:10 GMT+01:00 Raffaello Giulietti <
raffaello.giulietti at lifeware.ch>:
> On 2017-11-09 19:04, Nicolas Cellier wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 2017-11-09 18:02 GMT+01:00 Raffaello Giulietti <
>> raffaello.giulietti at lifeware.ch <mailto:raffaello.giulietti at lifeware.ch
>> >>:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway relying upon Float equality should allways be subject to
>> extreme caution and examination
>>
>> For example, what do you expect with plain old arithmetic in mind:
>>
>> a := 0.1.
>> b := 0.3 - 0.2.
>> a = b
>>
>> This will lead to (a - b) reciprocal = 3.602879701896397e16
>> If it is in a Graphics context, I'm not sure that it's the
>> expected scale...
>>
>>
>>
>> a = b evaluates to false in this example, so no wonder (a - b)
>> evaluates to a big number.
>>
>>
>> Writing a = b with floating point is rarely a good idea, so asking about
>> the context which could justify such approach makes sense IMO.
>>
>>
> Simple contexts, like the one which is the subject of this trail, are the
> one we should strive at because they are the ones most likely used in
> day-to-day working. Having useful properties and regularity for simple
> cases might perhaps cover 99% of the everyday usages (just a dishonestly
> biased estimate ;-) )
>
> Complex contexts, with heavy arithmetic, are best dealt by numericists
> when Floats are involved, or with unlimited precision numbers like
> Fractions by other programmers.
>
>
> This differs from my experience.
Float strikes in the most simple place were we put false expectation
because of a different mental representation
>
>
>
> But the example is not plain old arithmetic.
>>
>> Here, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 are just a shorthands to say "the Floats closest
>> to 0.1, 0.2, 0.3" (if implemented correctly, like in Pharo as it
>> seems). Every user of Floats should be fully aware of the implicit
>> loss of precision that using Floats entails.
>>
>>
>> Yes, it makes perfect sense!
>> But precisely because you are aware that 0.1e0 is "the Float closest to
>> 0.1" and not exactly 1/10, you should then not be surprised that they are
>> not equal.
>>
>>
> Indeed, I'm not surprised. But then
> 0.1 - (1/10)
> shall not evaluate to 0. If it evaluates to 0, then the numbers shall
> compare as being equal.
>
> The surprise lies in the inconsistency between the comparison and the
> subtraction, not in the isolated operations.
>
>
>
>
>> I agree that following assertion hold:
>> self assert: a ~= b & a isFloat & b isFloat & a isFinite & b
>> isFinite ==> (a - b) isZero not
>>
>>
> The arrow ==> is bidirectional even for finite Floats:
>
> self assert: (a - b) isZero not & a isFloat & b isFloat & a isFinite & b
> isFinite ==> a ~= b
>
>
>
> But (1/10) is not a Float and there is no Float that can represent it
>> exactly, so you can simply not apply the rules of FloatingPoint on it.
>>
>> When you write (1/10) - 0.1, you implicitely perform (1/10) asFloat - 0.1.
>> It is the rounding operation asFloat that made the operation inexact, so
>> it's no more surprising than other floating point common sense
>>
>
> See above my observation about what I consider surprising.
>
> As already said, it's a false expectation in the context of mixed
arithmetic.
>
>
>
>>
>> In the case of mixed-mode Float/Fraction operations, I personally
>> prefer reducing the Fraction to a Float because other commercial
>> Smalltalk implementations do so, so there would be less pain porting
>> code to Pharo, perhaps attracting more Smalltalkers to Pharo.
>>
>> Mixed arithmetic is problematic, and from my experience mostly happens in
>> graphics in Smalltalk.
>>
>> If ever I would change something according to this principle (but I'm not
>> convinced it's necessary, it might lead to other strange side effects),
>> maybe it would be how mixed arithmetic is performed...
>> Something like exact difference like Martin suggested, then converting to
>> nearest Float because result is inexact:
>> ((1/10) - 0.1 asFraction) asFloat
>>
>> This way, you would have a less surprising result in most cases.
>> But i could craft a fraction such that the difference underflows, and the
>> assertion a ~= b ==> (a - b) isZero not would still not hold.
>> Is it really worth it?
>> Will it be adopted in other dialects?
>>
>>
>>
> As an alternative, the Float>>asFraction method could return the Fraction
> with the smallest denominator that would convert to the receiver by the
> Fraction>>asFloat method.
>
> So, 0.1 asFraction would return 1/10 rather than the beefy Fraction it
> currently returns. To return the beast, one would have to intentionally
> invoke asExactFraction or something similar.
>
> This might cause less surprising behavior. But I have to think more.
>
>
> No the goal here was to have a non null difference because we need to
preserve inequality for other features.
Answering anything but a Float at a high computation price goes against
primary purpose of Float (speed, efficiency)
If that's what we want, then we shall not use Float in the first place.
That's why I don't believe in such proposal
The minimal Fraction algorithm is an intersting challenge though. Not sure
how to find it...
Coming back to a bit of code, we have only minimal decimal (with only
powers of 2 & 5 at denominator):
{[Float pi asFraction]. [Float pi asMinimalDecimalFraction]} collect:
#bench.
>
>
> But the main point here, I repeat myself, is to be consistent and to
>> have as much regularity as intrinsically possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think we have as much as possible already.
>> Non equality resolve more surprising behavior than it creates.
>> It makes the implementation more mathematically consistent (understand
>> preserving more properties).
>> Tell me how you are going to sort these 3 numbers:
>>
>> {1.0 . 1<<60+1/(1<<60). 1<<61+1/(1<<61)} sort.
>>
>> tell me the expectation of:
>>
>> {1.0 . 1<<60+1/(1<<60). 1<<61+1/(1<<61)} asSet size.
>>
>>
> A clearly stated rule, consistently applied and known to everybody, helps.
>
> In presence of heterogeneous numbers, the rule should state the common
> denominator, so to say. Hence, the numbers involved in mixed-mode
> arithmetic are either all converted to one representation or all to the
> other: whether they are compared or added, subtracted or divided, etc. One
> rule for mixed-mode conversions, not two.
>
>
> Having an economy of rules is allways a good idea.
If you can obtain a consistent system with 1 single rule rather than 2 then
go.
But if it's at the price of sacrificing higher expectations, that's another
matter.
Languages that have a simpler arithmetic model, bounded integer, no
Fraction, may stick to a single rule.
More sofisticated models like you'll find in Lisp and Scheme have exact
same logic as Squeak/Pharo.
We don't have 2 rules gratuitously as already explained.
- Total relation order of non nan values so as to be a good Magnitude
citizen imply non equality
- Producing Float in case of mixed arithmetic is for practicle purpose:
speed
(What are those damn Float for otherwise?)
it's also justified a posteriori by (exact op: inexact) -> inexact
What are you ready to sacrifice/trade?
>
> tell me why = is not a relation of equivalence anymore (not associative)
>>
>>
>>
> Ensuring that equality is an equivalence is always a problem when the
> entities involved are of different nature, like here. This is not a new
> problem and not inherent in numbers. (Logicians and set theorists would
> have much to tell.) Even comparing Points and ColoredPoints is problematic,
> so I have no final answer.
>
> In Smalltalk, furthermore, implementing equality makes it necessary to
> (publicly) expose much more internal details about an object than in other
> environments.
>
>
> Let's focus on Number.
Loosing equivalence is loosing ability to mix Numbers in Set.
But not only Numbers... Anything having a Number somewhere in an inst var,
like (1/10)@0 and 0.1 at 0.
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