[Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda at gmail.com
Tue Oct 15 11:47:43 EDT 2013


On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor at tudorgirba.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am in favor of using monospaced fonts for the code and sans serif fonts
> for the rest of the things. I pushed the Source Sans + Source Code fonts
> for the Moose image since half a year, and actually people like the look of
> them. I am a bit surprised to see such virulent reactions :).
>

again, ad hominem.


>
> @Sven: the mail discussions that led to the fonts choice had you in CC the
> whole time :).
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven at stfx.eu>wrote:
>
>>
>> On 15 Oct 2013, at 17:05, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On Oct 15, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven at stfx.eu>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On 15 Oct 2013, at 16:35, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> except that it is not accurate :)
>> >>>
>> >>> - with a monospace you can have bolds and italic without problems (it
>> is a decent one)... and you also can play with sizes (for example, for
>> comments)
>> >>> - when you copy&paste you will lose part of your formatting no matter
>> if you have a fixed font or a proportional one  (is not true that you lose
>> all of them... in fact I usually do not lose any)
>> >>
>> >> Sorry, but there are no sensible arguments in favour of a monospaced
>> font. It is just not needed (in Smalltalk). Another way to look at it is:
>> 99.99 % of the world use proportional fonts.
>> >>
>> >> BTW, I think whoever made this 'decision' knew it would be _very_ hard
>> to get this passed ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Maybe we should switch to C/Java/Javascript syntax so that we do not
>> scare newcomers ? Sorry, I could not resist.
>> > not taken.
>> > and non sense.
>> > idea is to welcome newcomers, not to became another language.
>> > Now... if font is *part* of the language, we could be talking about the
>> same. But since it is not, then we are comparing apples with tomatoes.
>> >
>> > I can say that no, 99% of the world do not use proportional fonts...
>> every other programing environment uses monospaced fonts.
>> > yeah, I know "we are different"... but we still code. Ah, no, sorry...
>> we "manipulate objects", but that looks really close to coding for me.
>> >
>> > and yes... I was expecting a lot of whining (even if it was not me
>> *alone* who took the decision), but I was expecting from people at least
>> wait to see the fonts before start the bashing ;)
>>
>> Well, it is not 'bashing', I just totally do not agree.
>> And I would like to know who else is in favour, how the decision was made.
>> But I'll wait a bit for other comments.
>>
>> >>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:53 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven at stfx.eu>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Excellent arguments !
>> >>>> I am with you 100%
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 15 Oct 2013, at 15:21, Igor Stasenko <siguctua at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Since the days when editors was able to allow me using any fonts, i
>> was always switching to variable-spaced font
>> >>>>> for code pane. And i am not speaking about smalltalk or pharo here,
>> it was C and Pascal those days :)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> guess, what i would prefer in pharo? :)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The bad things about getting used to monospaced fonts is that you
>> format code and it looks perfect,
>> >>>>> but then you print it or copy/paste it somewhere else where it uses
>> other font, and all your beautiful formatting are gone.
>> >>>>> Needless to say, that printing press was invented way before first
>> computer or digital printer, and all we know about fonts came
>> >>>>> to us from the printing world.. and i think i would be right saying
>> that before first digital printers there was not such thing as monospaced
>> >>>>> fonts, because it is not economically efficient: you don't want to
>> waste space on front page of your newspaper by aligning glyphs to some
>> virtual grid.
>> >>>>> More than that, it works well only if you using same font size and
>> no bold/underline variants whatever.. as soon as you use variants or
>> different font size,
>> >>>>> all the benefits of 'formatting' using monospaced font is gone.
>> >>>>> That means, if we employ monospaced font for code, we will be
>> forced to not use bold/italic variants, or different font size (for
>> instance,
>> >>>>> i would be like to play with code highlight scheme, where comments
>> using different font size, or where method name uses bigger font size etc).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Best regards,
>> >>>>> Igor Stasenko.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing has its own flow"
>



-- 
best,
Eliot
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