[Pharo-dev] Questions about Athens

kilon alios kilon.alios at gmail.com
Fri Nov 1 05:02:19 EDT 2013

Igor I got Athens-Tutorial but it gives me a MNU: AthensViewMorph>>layout:

On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 10:23 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios at gmail.com> wrote:

> ShivaVG looks definitely as a way to ease the pain of porting to OpenGL.
> Some notes on the matter. The Cairo backend for OpenGL is opengl but yet
> its not opengl.  What it does is render cairo as a opengl texture. OpenGL
> true power is in the shaders so you dont get the kind of hardware
> acceleration you would expect.
> Speewise as surprising this may sound  opengl is not the ideal option,
> because opengl is mainly 3d orientated. The ideal solution from what I have
> seen would be something like CUDA or OpenCL, that give direct access to the
> GPU cores and allow you to do any kind of computation thus liberation from
> the restrictions of APIs. For example Blender takes advantage of both
> Opengl and CUDA , the CUDA renderer is phenomenal better because of its
> flexibility.
> The problem however is that all that are very technical and it takes quite
> some dedication to implement.
> A reason why I abandoned opengl as an idea is that I came to realise that
> Cairo was already fast enough for my needs. But I still keep that door open
> for the distant future, ShivaVG with OpenCL would be awesome for really
> intensive GUIs and complex Graphics and definitely would love to give it
> another try eventually.
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 2:19 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1 November 2013 00:53, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel at me.com>wrote:
>>> Not sure to fully understand the problem. In what ShivaVG would solve a
>>> situation better than with Athens? If I understand well, a then working
>>> with Cairo uses the hardware acceleration right?
>>> What is it not enough for you need?
>>> First, OpenVG is more complete and i would say thoroughly designed API
>> than Cairo.
>> Second, i don't want to go  Athens -> Cairo -> OpenGL
>> if i can do directly Athens->OpenGL.
>> Putting extra dependency out of the loop is advantageous, OpenGL is
>> widely supported industry standard, which today you can find even on
>> portable devices, while you cannot say same about Cairo.
>>  (not mentioning avoiding costs of having multiple layers to get to the
>> hardware).
>> ShivaVG implements OpenVG API using OpenGL, since OpenVG is vector
>> graphics framework
>> it can serve as a good source to look how to implement OpenGL backend for
>> Athens.
>>> Alexandre
>>> > Le 31-10-2013 à 19:16, Igor Stasenko <siguctua at gmail.com> a écrit :
>>> >
>>> > I cannot say, of course, how it would be for you, but there is
>>> ShivaVG[1] open-source
>>> > opengl implementation of OpenVG, more or less feature-complete,
>>> > so all what is needed is to port this code from C to smalltalk.
>>> > Or if not for porting, but using as a source of insights how to
>>> implement it.
>>> > I think it is fairly doable.
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Igor Stasenko.
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