[Pharo-project] Enthousiasm is the main currency among developers

Guido Stepken gstepken at googlemail.com
Fri Jan 27 16:53:45 EST 2012


I see quite a difference between "doing things right" and "doing the right
things" ! :-)
Am 27.01.2012 22:50 schrieb "Eliot Miranda" <eliot.miranda at gmail.com>:

>
>
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Guido Stepken <gstepken at googlemail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Elliot!
>>
>> When I rethink, why new programming languages came up from zero to a
>> significant market share, like PERL, PHP, Python, Ruby, JAVA, C# (.net)
>> Visual Basic, Visual C++ and others died out, like Delphi,
>> TurboBasic/Pascal/C I could name different reasons:
>>
>> - Free license vs. expensive
>> - Wrong payment model (per developer, per runtime, both)
>> - Good, free support on websites vs. "Bronze/silver/gold"
>> paystupid-support
>> - Attractiveness of one "killer app" that made programmers change to
>> another language
>> - Portability of code onto other platforms
>> - Mightyness of libraries
>> - Missing standards, protocols, support of hardware
>> - Good vs. bad marketing, deciders not convinced that product will
>> survive/missing timeline, visions, lack of money in background
>> - Subcritical mass of programmers using product, lack of professionals
>>
>> That was in former times.
>>
>> Today, new criterias play a far more relevant role, hat haven't really
>> existed just 3 years ago:
>>
>> - Has it (the OS,the programming language and GUI framework) an
>> appstore/plugin concept to let free, creative brains being able to
>> participate, earn money with?
>> - Barrier - free payment model included (mobile payment, card, bank
>> account)?
>> - Free use with sponsoring by ads possible (programmers payed from
>> multiple resources, not user alone)
>> - Cryptographic prevention of missuse included?
>> - Free and matured SDK available?
>> - Connections to social software like facebook/twitter/Google+/Groupon
>> included (API access, programming language and all protocols supported)
>> - GUI designed for desktop as well usable for touch and self adapting to
>> different screen/touch sizes?
>> - Touch gestures possible and lib avail?
>> - Microsofts Kinect hardware/video recognition of faces, hand/face mimic
>> gestures possible and supported in libs?
>> - Voice recognition supported?
>> - Mobile ready? (touch, GPS, compass, barometer, gyro, hardware OpenGL)
>> - Rockstable?
>> - Fast, running in low power devices? Joule per clock cycle ratio???
>> - Critical mass of users already reached, increasing?
>> - Critical number of apps there to raise interest?
>> ...
>>
>> So, the Pharo developers might now decide, what to invest their
>> brainpower into! :-)
>>
>> Just my 2ct.
>>
>
> OK, that looks like a great list.  But don't you agree that criticism (in
> the sense of something that leads to quality software engineering)
> underlies several of these, such as Rockstable, Fast, running on low-power
> devices, etc?  To me, being critical doesn't mean being uncreative or
> conservative; it means thinking about what you're doing, and doing a good
> job.
>
>> Guido Stepken
>> Am 27.01.2012 19:46 schrieb "Eliot Miranda" <eliot.miranda at gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker at inria.fr>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 27, 2012, at 6:13 AM, dimitris chloupis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > This article is really encapsulates the attitude and what is wrong
>>>> with programming in general. The attitude of superiority and intelligence
>>>> that seems to plague coders and being the biggest obstacle to progress.
>>>>
>>>> Yes! The "Everyone is dumb but me" phenomenon...
>>>>
>>>> What those "intelligent" people don't get is that complexity is
>>>> inherently exponential. So even if you are
>>>> 10 times more intelligent than me (very well possible), it is
>>>> *completely* irrelevant considering that complexity
>>>> grows non-linearly.
>>>>
>>>> If you combine this with the notion of Evolution: that it is impossible
>>>> to creat "the perfect" out of nothing, yet
>>>> entropy grows when you incrementally improve things... than this has
>>>> some very serious consequences.
>>>>
>>>> > For me the main problem with is the whole aura of  "elitism" , what
>>>> better example than Lisp, where beginners are attacked and be excluded.
>>>>
>>>> We had the same effect in Squeak at the end. No progress, every
>>>> improvement was actively fighted against, if needed with the nice argument
>>>> that
>>>> one can do it even better, and only "the best" is worth for Squeak.
>>>>
>>>> Another thing that "intelligent" people don't get is that critizising
>>>> is trivial: You can *always* do better, there is no perfection. It's an
>>>> endless process.
>>>> This implies that one has to accept and embrace imperfection if one
>>>> wants to have a future. Else you end up never finishing anything, the death
>>>> of any
>>>> incremental progress.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But criticism is essential.  How does one identify a mistake if not by
>>> criticising?  There's a huge difference between constructive criticism
>>> (analysis, testing, comparison, evaluation, measurement) and negativity
>>> (denial, fear, slander).  How can one engineer without measurement, without
>>> thought?  Being agile doesn't imply being random.  Evolution measures, and
>>> most harshly; the weaker don't survive.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pharo was started with the explicit goal to do as many mistakes as
>>>> possible, as fast as possible.
>>>>
>>>>        Marcus
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> best,
>>> Eliot
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> best,
> Eliot
>
>
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