[Pharo-project] glamour and pharo

Stéphane Ducasse stephane.ducasse at inria.fr
Sun Jan 1 03:14:02 EST 2012

On Jan 1, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Tudor Girba wrote:

> Hi Stef,
> We are in the new year now, so the arguments can begin :).

Sure ;)

> First, these seem to be a totally different set of arguments :). That is good.
>> 		I do not like the magic of the block and arguments
> There really is little magic. In fact, it is about the same as the magic of Morphic calling selectors with arguments.

except that it changes the perception of blocks arguments and usage.

>> 		and the scripting aspects
>> Veronica showed me that she does not use long scripts. 
> I do not understand. You do not have to use long scripts unless you want them. If you look in the current code of most browsers, you will see that most methods are pretty small. So, this is not really an argument, either.
>> Still I do not see how we extend browsers. We discussed that during the PhD meal at bern with lukas
>> and I'm still not convinced. 
> I am not sure what you are referring to.

How I can create a subclass and customize.

>> Now if people want to load glamour perfect. Now I do not have any spare cycles
>> to maintain it. My plate is full.
> I do not understand. You do not have to maintain it. It is already maintained.

Well, when we integrate something we have to take care. You know oops we changed this wonderful
method that nobody use except you :). And suddenly Pharo is bad because it changes :). 
So it means more code to look at…

>> For now I would like to have a good way to build and reuse Morphic widgets not to 
>> create another layer on top. 
> Sure. Go ahead. This is most welcome.
> Please understand that this debate started because you said it's sad that Alex would choose to work on top of Glamour for the Metacello browser. I simply would like to understand why you think it's so. To me, there does not seem to be a strong argument.

Because if alex can build a model and a little UI for basic image and wrap it with a better UI for glamouroust then 
we all win. Now if there is no UI for basic then the people like me that are always coding in alpha and working a lot 
with metacello will get zero benefit.

I think that the plan is the following:
	- make the best IDE you can and that the people use it like hell
	- make sure that you force pharo to always load it 
	- for the moment we are focusing on cleaning below. Now the challenge is that we need tools too.


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