[Pharo-project] support for flattening-out traits for export?

Torsten Bergmann astares at gmx.de
Tue Jun 7 11:20:53 EDT 2011

>Just a meta question.....

What about real questions: 

 - are Traits used these days
 - in which packages and why
 - how is the adoption rate

I havent much used them by myself (mostly due to the lack of
time to dig into it) but I would like to learn about the current
state of Traits (is it used, maintained, usable).

And yes - we can add lots of (language) features. But we 
should also discuss/measure/find out if they are usefull. 
Some of them help us moving forward others may stand in our 
way. And "Keep it simple" is always a good rule ... 

One great thing in languages like Smalltalk is that
you can care about the problem ... and not so much about
satisfying the compiler or knowing about the 10 most recent
language features nailed to the language to circumvent problems
from early language design.

I think we should be more serious ... Marianos may have 
some valid points we should discuss. So let him tell us
why he avoided Traits and what are the issues with tools.
Let's listen and learn. 

>"he last time something serious was new in Smalltalk it was back in 1984"
>"got killed by Java" 
>"Pharo is not about maintaining the past."

Sorry Stef, but to me these are phrases and not releated to
the question about the usefullness of Traits.
Language features were not the reasons why Java took up. 
Back at the time it was small, free, multiplatform and available in 
the web  (applets) when the web took up and no radical change for 
most programmers. 

In fact languages features are discussed these days for Java
and we should discuss them too...
Especially since Smalltalk is not a programming language ... more
a dynamic object system on top of a VM with a language built in.

Which path would we like to take with Pharo? Adding more language 
features to be comparable to other languages? Or even become a 
multilanguage platform/embed new languages similar to JVM and 
.NET VM (maybe with Helvetia)? What are our goals here?



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