[Pharo-project] Issue 940: (13/10) = 1.3 returns false

Stéphane Ducasse stephane.ducasse at inria.fr
Thu Jul 9 03:31:17 EDT 2009


Hi dave

thanks for your email because it makes me realizing something important:
Computer float numbers are NOT math float numbers. Let us accept it.


> I guess you gonna miss pretty soon those imperfect inexact Float of
> the unreasonnable people.
>
> Nicolas please read what I wrote:
>
> If you're defining the default behavior of numbers in the system,  
> the principle of "thou shall not commit premature optimization"  
> should come into play.  If you're that desperately in need of  
> floating point speed, you're also probably capable of applying that  
> and other optimization techniques accordingly, as befits your problem.
> The case of the core drawing engine is a special case. You would  
> optimize this case specially, knowing full well that it is a  
> critical system loop that affects the performance of everything  
> else.  But turning around and saying that because this core loop  
> requires optimization, that this optimization technique should be  
> the default is a total non sequitur.  One special case does not  
> define what the general case should be.

I did not read the fix of nicolas as an optimization, more like a way  
to fix the wrong behavior of abstraction we offers.
I would be in favor to remove = on floats to raise the awareness that  
it does not make sense.

> When making a fundamental design decision as to what a sane default  
> is, you need to look at what the non-expert using the system will  
> expect.

as programmer we should be expert to the point we understand float =  
is nonsense.


>   Saying that "you should know IEEE 754 float math" isn't helpful.   
> Skilled professionals
> make mistakes with floating point math every day.

Exact this is why we should not confort them in this attitude by  
having a system that make them think that
float equality make sense.

>  Telling a child in grammar school that their program doesn't work  
> because they don't understand IEEE 754 math is equally absurd.

But telling a kid: Floats are not real float numbers so do not use  
them as such.

Once my math teacher asked us to computer a function limit and funnily  
when you type it on a computer at that time
you would got a factor 7 between the math and computer. So we learned  
that there is a difference between math and computer.

> Design decisions should not be driven by implementation optimization  
> requirements.  Doing so only places the incidental preferences of  
> the system implementors over the needs of those who will use it.

Exact. What nicolas is doing is not an optimization: this is fixing  
reality. Your hardware is real and it dictactes
all the errors **you** will do, if the language does not offer you the  
right hardware abstraction.
Computer float numbers are NOT math float numbers. Let us accept it.


>
> Dave
>
> -- 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://blog.dloh.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project





More information about the Pharo-dev mailing list