[Pharo-project] About on:

Bill Schwab BSchwab at anest.ufl.edu
Sun Jun 8 09:20:32 EDT 2008


Damien,

I saw and replied to Victor's invitation first, so we should probably just wait for him to do it.

Thanks!

Bill




Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bschwab at anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 846-1285
FAX: (352) 392-7029

>>> damien.cassou at gmail.com 06/07/08 2:18 PM >>>
Just send me your google email address and I will add you.

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab at anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
> Stef,
>
> I appear to have a working google account, and it seems willing to let
> me add comments to wiki pages.  Is there more to do to enable me to
> edit?
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
> University of Florida
> Department of Anesthesiology
> PO Box 100254
> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
>
> Email: bschwab at anest.ufl.edu
> Tel: (352) 846-1285
> FAX: (352) 392-7029
>
>
>>>> stephane.ducasse at inria.fr 6/6/2008 1:53:17 PM >>>
> Yes bill I think that this is important that we get one page with the
>
> proposal
> because we should find a way to make progress.
> May be with a stream factory or other method names as you suggest (if
>
> I understand correctly)
> This is important that we do not lose the ideas and proposal.
>
> Stef
>
> On Jun 6, 2008, at 6:49 PM, Victor Rodriguez wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab at anest.ufl.edu>
>
>> wrote:
>>> Lukas,
>>>
>>> Re "I hope that we do not have to implement our own stream
>>> hierarchy as
>>> well."
>>>
>>> I do not intend to be confrontational, but you are over-reacting.
>>> Nothing I am proposing would force you to create a stream
> hierarchy.
>>> Worry not, as I do not see my proposal being accepted anyway.  I
> will
>>> simply add protocol that meets my needs, convert to it, and move
> on.
>>
>> Perhaps the Pharo project is not yet ready for your proposal, with
> so
>> many things yet to be done, but who knows what might happen in the
>> future?  What about documenting your proposal in the wiki?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Victor Rodriguez.
>>
>>
>>> If by your proposal, you mean relying on a default action to
> preserve
>>> behavior, that is not a solution.  The whole point of exceptions is
>
>>> to
>>> fail loudly vs. (potentially) passing garbage into code that might
> or
>>> might not recognize what happened.  The default action makes it too
>
>>> easy
>>> to miss.  The very thing that keeps you happy subjects my customers
>
>>> to
>>> risk that I consider to be unacceptable, especially given that
>>> there are
>>> simple (if tedious) solutions that will avoid the problem.
>>>
>>> My particular RB limitations are based on what is built into
> Dolphin,
>>> and an old version at that.  I need to see what Damien has on
>>> offer.  My
>>> understanding is that the "comment abuse" is greatly reduced
>>> relative to
>>> what I have experienced.  Failing that, there are other text-
>>> processing
>>> methods.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
>>> University of Florida
>>> Department of Anesthesiology
>>> PO Box 100254
>>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
>>>
>>> Email: bschwab at anest.ufl.edu
>>> Tel: (352) 846-1285
>>> FAX: (352) 392-7029
>>>
>>>>>> renggli at gmail.com 06/06/08 9:13 AM >>>
>>>> The changes I propose would be almost trivial for them to adopt,
> and
>>>> might actually make their lives easier in targeting Dolphin,
> should
>>> they
>>>> wish to do so.
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree. The rewrite engine can fix all these things.
>>>
>>>> All arguments in favor of preserving current behavior have been
>>>> based
>>> on
>>>> backward compatibility - nothing on merits.
>>>
>>> I am only saying that keeping things backward compatible in
> critical
>>> position makes everything easier. Frankly, I like the solution I
>>> proposed and that apparently other people have thought out as well.
>>> You can use both semantics, depending on what makes more sense in
>>> your
>>> context. And best of all, it does not break existing code. I am
>>> missing a reason why Alan Knight think this solution is not good.
>>>
>>>> or Seaside, I would certainly keep Seaside going, though I suspect
>>> the
>>>> Seaside developers would accomodate us in trying to align the
>>> dialects.
>>>
>>> We never forced anybody to align their dialect. If possible, we
>>> always
>>> changed our own code. We introduced compatibility layers that
> porters
>>> can fill or we simply built our own classes. I hope that we do not
>>> have to implement our own stream hierarchy as well.
>>>
>>>> [*] I assume that I will write Dolphin code to export something
> that
>>>> Pharo can load.  If any of you know of a good solution to that
>>> problem,
>>>> please let me know.  In case you are wondering why the renaming is
>>> all
>>>> done in Pharo, it is because it hopefully does a better job of
>>> leaving
>>>> formatting in tact - D5's version of the RB is fairly hostile in
>>>> that
>>>> regard.
>>>
>>> The rewrite engine in Squeak/Pharo reformats all code it touches.
>>> VisualWorks has some improvements in that area. I discussed with
> John
>>> Brant and he said that these improvements are part of the
> open-source
>>> refactoring browser, however the problem is that Cincom modified
> the
>>> code and that the original improvements are not part of the
> download
>>> on John's website. Therefor it is not clear, what code is clean and
>>> what code is commercial.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Lukas
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lukas Renggli
>>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>
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-- 
Damien Cassou
Peter von der Ahé: «I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good
luck». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu)

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