[Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: Interaction with Java

Bill Schwab BSchwab at anest.ufl.edu
Fri Dec 12 08:57:05 EST 2008


Norbert,

Not to start an argument or anything, where do we disagree?  I assume I
am a bit more jaded about the usefulness of _most_ canned components,
but freely admit that the odd thing here or there can be a life saver.

"The need for C is quite obvious. It is the best accepted macro
assembler ever invented."

--- May I steal that?  Well said!

Bill




The need for C is quite obvious. It is the best accepted macro
assembler ever invented.

Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bschwab at anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 273-6785
FAX: (352) 392-7029

>>> norbert at hartl.name 12/12/08 6:04 AM >>>
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 16:08 -0300, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
> Dear List,
> 
> Something is trotting in my head for few weeks. According to the mails
 
> exchanged on this list, it seems that interacting with C is of a high 

> priority. I was wondering whether you had a similar need for talking  
> to the Java world. Few months ago, I worked on Athena, a small  
> Smalltalk VM written in Java. It can be interfaced with Squeak. This  
> means that within Squeak, you can create Java objects and talking  
> directly to them within Squeak.
> 
> Is there anyone who need this? I am ready to continue on this, but I  
> would like to be use case driven.
> 
The need for C is quite obvious. It is the best accepted macro
assembler ever invented. I can see what Bill is talking about
but I don't see it that way. If you want to be on the safe side
you focus on the least common denominator and that is C nowadays.
Using C you have the highest odds that you are able to interface
with anything else. That is the same reason why IDL sucks. It is
built after the least common denominator (which is C). So the 
interfaces are clumsy and cumbersome. Having two high-level 
languages interfacing via IDL is not that powerful you just lose
on both sides.

What you are talking about is more an integration than an interfacing
issue. In this case there could be some gain. Java has its place and
it is not competing with C. So there are at least two languages that
are accepted today of different reasons. Widening the view on this
topic I would add javascript, too. 

The fashion to implement in/script java has already began. The number 
of languages like javascript, groovy, jython, jruby, beanshell ...
is speaking for itself. 

So what you are talking about sounds useful to me. I have two use
cases in mind:

Use case ME: 

The micro edition approach could bring squeak/smalltalk to mobile
devices which I would like to see. Athena is capable of that but
it has no graphics. On the other hand there is potato that is able
to execute a squeak image. For this approach a combined effort of
athena and potato would be a good thing.

Use case SE:

The standard edition approach will make use of the ScriptHost
extension that comes with Java 6. Being able to script any java
application with smalltalk would be just wonderful.  I'm working
wih rhino (mozillas javascript engine in java) at the moment and
it is really wonderful. You focus on javascript and take java
as your assembly language to code """low level""" tools :)


Hope this helps,

Norbert



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