A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it. It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
Itâs very entertaining but it seems a bit sad - itâs a shame it refers to JP-Morgan as âused Smalltalk â as actually they are âstill using Smalltalkâ (so itâs not in the past) Tim Sent from my iPhone
On 5 Aug 2019, at 16:19, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system. On Tue, Aug 6, 2019, 05:06 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Itâs very entertaining but it seems a bit sad - itâs a shame it refers to JP-Morgan as âused Smalltalk â as actually they are âstill using Smalltalkâ (so itâs not in the past)
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On 5 Aug 2019, at 16:19, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
Well, all software applications eventually meet their EOL. IRIS-2 had a good, long run. Note that the same thing applies to JWARS. It was EOL'd in 2010, but it was operational for over a decade. That's pretty damn good! None of this takes away from Smalltalk's efficacy and power. Mariano Martinez Peck wrote
Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system.
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019, 05:06 Tim Mackinnon <
tim@
> wrote:
Itâs very entertaining but it seems a bit sad - itâs a shame it refers to JP-Morgan as âused Smalltalk â as actually they are âstill using Smalltalkâ (so itâs not in the past)
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On 5 Aug 2019, at 16:19, Richard Kenneth Eng <
horrido.hobbies@
>
wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
I donât know if a 10 year lifespan is exceptional. I wrote an application in 1986 thatâs still running. Development took 6 weeks. Including testing. /ââââââââââââââââââââ/ For encrypted mail use jgpfersich@protonmail.com Get a free account at ProtonMail.com Web: www.objectnets.net and www.objectnets.org
On Aug 6, 2019, at 04:37, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, all software applications eventually meet their EOL. IRIS-2 had a good, long run.
Note that the same thing applies to JWARS. It was EOL'd in 2010, but it was operational for over a decade. That's pretty damn good!
None of this takes away from Smalltalk's efficacy and power.
Mariano Martinez Peck wrote
Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system.
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019, 05:06 Tim Mackinnon <
tim@
> wrote:
Itâs very entertaining but it seems a bit sad - itâs a shame it refers to JP-Morgan as âused Smalltalk â as actually they are âstill using Smalltalkâ (so itâs not in the past)
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On 5 Aug 2019, at 16:19, Richard Kenneth Eng <
horrido.hobbies@
>
wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
True, some applications are very long-lived. But in my experience, a great many applications are EOL'd within 20 years. It may happen for many different reasons, some technical, some political, some because the technology has grown out of date (which causes HR and support difficulties). My point was simply that any software project that lasts more than a decade has to be considered a success. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi, I started using ST in 1990 and I have developed an application with VSE for company management (MIDA - Management Integrato Dati Aziendali) at the beginning of 2000 and at present there are still more than 300 users and I integrated it with Pharo for WEB applications. Now, I am integrating it with a fuzzy logic (FuzzyWorld) tool that I have already used for different fields like football training, electroforesys analysis, air pollution and many other application. IMHO I believe that ST is the best tool on the market. Lorenzo -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di horrido Inviato: mercoledì 7 agosto 2019 04:13 A: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk True, some applications are very long-lived. But in my experience, a great many applications are EOL'd within 20 years. It may happen for many different reasons, some technical, some political, some because the technology has grown out of date (which causes HR and support difficulties). My point was simply that any software project that lasts more than a decade has to be considered a success. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
What is the intentend audience of this? Personally I don't like the aesthetics, the pace of text and its "nostalgia", and the overall message of the song lyrics ; and although I like the band and song, it's a proven plagiarism of Satriani's "If I could fly". [1] Regards, [1] https://youtu.be/8RJmiMq1pOA?t=48 Esteban A. Maringolo On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 8:04 AM Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system.
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019, 05:06 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Itâs very entertaining but it seems a bit sad - itâs a shame it refers to JP-Morgan as âused Smalltalk â as actually they are âstill using Smalltalkâ (so itâs not in the past)
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On 5 Aug 2019, at 16:19, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
What is the intentend audience of this? I watched the video again, carefully, and here's my takeaway... The video is aimed at developers and would-be developers who: â have never heard of Smalltalk, or do not know anything significant about the language or its history â are not aware that Smalltalk was once a reasonably popular language, so it's not as obscure and esoteric as they think â do not know that there have been two conflicting philosophies surrounding OOP, and that most developers have learned OOP "the wrong way" â and, most importantly, that Smalltalk represents a new programming model, distinct from the one that most everyone have been using since the days of FORTRAN and COBOL This last point is crucial. I've heard so many complaints about Smalltalk being too "insular" because of its system image, that it doesn't play well with existing programming tools like text editors, command line utilities, git, etc. Duh! It's a new programming model! What do you expect? And now that Pharo plays nice with git, insularity is no longer as big a deal. This new programming model is THE REASON that Smalltalk is so super productive. If the video can drive home this point, and I think it does, that's a huge achievement. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Personally I don't like the aesthetics, the pace of text and its "nostalgia", and the overall message of the song lyrics ; and although I like the band and song, it's a proven plagiarism of Satriani's "If I could fly". [1] Putting aside the song's controversy, I think it's a lovely aesthetic. It's romantic. It mirrors Smalltalk's former glory. And the video's content suggests a possible bright future. "Join the revolution." Indeed. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system.Â
Many things seem to be possible in times where talks like "How to get rid of Smalltalk" [1] will be presented on a Smalltalk conference (here ESUG 2019). Did commercial / traditional Smalltalk world really change over the years? I'm not following them too closely in recent months but I see some commercial vendors still try to attract people with old success stories and videos from ancient times. Where is the "coolness factor" combined with fancy marketing to attract new generations and audience... And this although Smalltalk seems to be often mentioned as favourite language like in [2] Pharo is in fact the main innovation driver these days. Another reason to move on, to improve it or even change Pharo more radical into a world beyond traditional Smalltalk. We all know that many new cool and interesting things could be done on top of the powerful base of a lively and dynamic object oriented system which we still share with the historic roots.... Bye T. [1] https://esug.github.io/2019-Conference/conf2019.html [2] https://twitter.com/Grady_Booch/status/1157049284870602752
I've read a number of LinkedIn posts from Mariano MartÃnez Peck about recent innovations to VA Smalltalk, IIRC. Seems to me that Instantiations are doing a good job of innovating, too. Torsten Bergmann wrote
Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system.Â
Many things seem to be possible in times where talks like "How to get rid of Smalltalk" [1] will be presented on a Smalltalk conference (here ESUG 2019).
Did commercial / traditional Smalltalk world really change over the years? I'm not following them too closely in recent months but I see some commercial vendors still try to attract people with old success stories and videos from ancient times. Where is the "coolness factor" combined with fancy marketing to attract new generations and audience...
And this although Smalltalk seems to be often mentioned as favourite language like in [2]
Pharo is in fact the main innovation driver these days. Another reason to move on, to improve it or even change Pharo more radical into a world beyond traditional Smalltalk. We all know that many new cool and interesting things could be done on top of the powerful base of a lively and dynamic object oriented system which we still share with the historic roots....
Bye T.
[1] https://esug.github.io/2019-Conference/conf2019.html [2] https://twitter.com/Grady_Booch/status/1157049284870602752
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 5:39 PM horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
I've read a number of LinkedIn posts from Mariano MartÃnez Peck about recent innovations to VA Smalltalk, IIRC. Seems to me that Instantiations are doing a good job of innovating, too.
Thanks Richard. Funny thing... I was typing my response while yours jumped in :) -- Mariano Martinez Peck Email: marianopeck@gmail.com Twitter: @MartinezPeck LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/> Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/
Hi Torsten, how are you? Please find my answers below. On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 12:37 PM Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system.
Many things seem to be possible in times where talks like "How to get rid of Smalltalk" [1] will be presented on a Smalltalk conference (here ESUG 2019).
Yes, I saw it too and caught my attention. Here is more details about the talk: https://github.com/ESUG/esug.github.io/blob/source/2019-Conference/talks/201... I think it's a nice gesture from ESUG to not ban it and let him speak. Whether we agree or not, that's a different discussion. But we can't ban.
Did commercial / traditional Smalltalk world really change over the years? I'm not following them too closely in recent months but I see some commercial vendors still try to attract people with old success stories and videos from ancient times.
You know I am working for Instantiations. I have seen what you mean too in other vendors but I cannot speak in public about that. Feel free to send me a private email. Where is the "coolness factor" combined with fancy marketing to attract new
generations and audience...
That's exactly the kind of marketing that we are doing at Instantiations. We are doing a lot of R&D in many areas such as IoT, ARM (we have ARM 32 and ARM 64), Raspberry Pi, AI/ML TensorFlow, Docker and many many other aspects. We have also moved forward on improving dialect compatibility such as writing a Tonel reader AND WRITER. Just take a look to my or or Instantiations twitter/linkedin activity and you will see it. You can also see our recent newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/instantiations/va-smalltalk-news-august-1-3037649 https://mailchi.mp/instantiations/va-smalltalk-news-april-17 Instantiations sponsored Camp St NC on March https://twitter.com/CampSmalltalkNA , its sponsoring ESUG and will sponsor Smalltalks. If you check everything I sent, you will notice there is not a single reference to success stories (except one that partner with us to build the new LLVM JIT).
And this although Smalltalk seems to be often mentioned as favourite language like in [2]
Pharo is in fact the main innovation driver these days. Another reason to move on, to improve it or even change Pharo more radical into a world beyond traditional Smalltalk. We all know that many new cool and interesting things could be done on top of the powerful base of a lively and dynamic object oriented system which we still share with the historic roots....
Well, I don't fully agree there. See my response here: http://forum.world.st/Re-Pharo-users-OT-slightly-What-makes-other-dialects-e... I don't mind Pharo moving forward in innovation and with more radical changes beyond traditional Smalltalk etc etc. But then don't call it "business friendly". It's not that you have 100 paid engineers to work on it. IMHO you cannot correctly target both. Best regards, -- Mariano Martinez Peck Email: marianopeck@gmail.com Twitter: @MartinezPeck LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/> Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/
/Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system. / How accurate is this ? From: https://www.oocl.com/eng/aboutoocl/companyprofile/informationtechnology/Page... OOCL's Integrated Regional Information System, known as IRIS-2, was launched in 1999. IRIS-2 became more than just a software; it helped facilitate a new company culture. * IRIS-2 has changed the way we think and the way we do business.* regards, bruno -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Sorry, The main phrase: Today, we continue to reap the rewards of this remarkable system. regards, bruno -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
The last place was a few days ago: https://twitter.com/MartinClausen8/status/1157051595999404033 But... a whole longer discussion took place a few months ago...but I cannot find it now. On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 5:19 PM BrunoBB <smalltalk@adinet.com.uy> wrote:
Sorry,
The main phrase:
Today, we continue to reap the rewards of this remarkable system.
regards, bruno
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
-- Mariano Martinez Peck Email: marianopeck@gmail.com Twitter: @MartinezPeck LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/> Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/
I'm just guessing, but perhaps COSCO's acquisition of OOCL forced them to realign their software infrastructure. COSCO is obviously not a Smalltalk shop. This wouldn't be the first time an acquisition forced major corporate changes. Mariano Martinez Peck wrote
The last place was a few days ago: https://twitter.com/MartinClausen8/status/1157051595999404033 But... a whole longer discussion took place a few months ago...but I cannot find it now.
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 5:19 PM BrunoBB <
smalltalk@.com
> wrote:
Sorry,
The main phrase:
Today, we continue to reap the rewards of this remarkable system.
regards, bruno
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
-- Mariano Martinez Peck Email:
marianopeck@
Twitter: @MartinezPeck LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/>; Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:16 PM BrunoBB <smalltalk@adinet.com.uy> wrote:
/Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system. /
How accurate is this ?
OOCL advanced their system to IRIS-4 (Oracle based) and was eventually bought by COSCO, a mainland China shipping company. COSCO is currently running IRIS-2.
From:
https://www.oocl.com/eng/aboutoocl/companyprofile/informationtechnology/Page...
OOCL's Integrated Regional Information System, known as IRIS-2, was launched in 1999. IRIS-2 became more than just a software; it helped facilitate a new company culture. * IRIS-2 has changed the way we think and the way we do business.*
regards, bruno
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hmmm, I apparently guessed wrong. :-( Richard Sargent wrote
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:16 PM BrunoBB <
smalltalk@.com
> wrote:
/Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system. /
How accurate is this ?
OOCL advanced their system to IRIS-4 (Oracle based) and was eventually bought by COSCO, a mainland China shipping company. COSCO is currently running IRIS-2.
From:
https://www.oocl.com/eng/aboutoocl/companyprofile/informationtechnology/Page...
OOCL's Integrated Regional Information System, known as IRIS-2, was launched in 1999. IRIS-2 became more than just a software; it helped facilitate a new company culture. * IRIS-2 has changed the way we think and the way we do business.*
regards, bruno
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
"Used Smalltalk" doesn't imply that they stopped using Smalltalk, esp. if Kapital is still operational. Tim Mackinnon wrote
Itâs very entertaining but it seems a bit sad - itâs a shame it refers to JP-Morgan as âused Smalltalk â as actually they are âstill using Smalltalkâ (so itâs not in the past)
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On 5 Aug 2019, at 16:19, Richard Kenneth Eng <
horrido.hobbies@
> wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Kapital is still operational - some of the guys on that team come to the UK Smalltalk Meetup and they are often talking about improvements and things they are doing (in a general sense, as obviously they canât share specific details) - so its still very active and an amazing system. I had a chance to work on it a bit myself for 6 months, and was amazed how productive I could be with very little on boarding (particularly when shown their equivalent of the halo click command to understand where the code in the ui comes from). Tim
On 6 Aug 2019, at 12:33, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
"Used Smalltalk" doesn't imply that they stopped using Smalltalk, esp. if Kapital is still operational.
Tim Mackinnon wrote
Itâs very entertaining but it seems a bit sad - itâs a shame it refers to JP-Morgan as âused Smalltalk â as actually they are âstill using Smalltalkâ (so itâs not in the past)
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On 5 Aug 2019, at 16:19, Richard Kenneth Eng <
horrido.hobbies@
> wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
I didn't get the sense that "used" means its no longer being used. Yesterday I used a keyboard to write an email, and I'm doing the same thing today. cheers -ben On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 at 16:06, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Itâs very entertaining but it seems a bit sad - itâs a shame it refers to JP-Morgan as âused Smalltalk â as actually they are âstill using Smalltalkâ (so itâs not in the past)
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On 5 Aug 2019, at 16:19, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
I'm not a native speaker but grammatically speaking "used" (simple past) means you did use it in the past but there is no information about whether you use it now, and "have been using" (present perfect) means you did use it in the past and continue to do so in the present. Esteban A. Maringolo On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 11:37 AM Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
I didn't get the sense that "used" means its no longer being used. Yesterday I used a keyboard to write an email, and I'm doing the same thing today. cheers -ben
On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 at 16:06, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Itâs very entertaining but it seems a bit sad - itâs a shame it refers to JP-Morgan as âused Smalltalk â as actually they are âstill using Smalltalkâ (so itâs not in the past)
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On 5 Aug 2019, at 16:19, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
Nice enough, but where is the canticle? On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 at 03:20, Richard Kenneth Eng <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
A big fan of my work created this rogue video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1opveHaukFK8WbQ8wg8b14wuKJsjoOZfO/view
I appreciate the homage, but I can't take credit for it.
It's really quite beautiful, though. I'm using it as part of my evangelism.
participants (12)
-
Ben Coman -
BrunoBB -
Esteban Maringolo -
horrido -
John Pfersich -
Lorenzo Schiavina -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Richard Kenneth Eng
-
Richard O'Keefe -
Richard Sargent -
Tim Mackinnon -
Torsten Bergmann