Hi Hilaire, Which Pharo version? Have you found any solution to this? In Gofer there was #disablePackageCache, in Metacello I don't know, maybe experimenting with MetacelloLoaderPolicy but there are no class comments. Cheers, Hernán 2017-12-18 17:24 GMT-03:00 Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu>:

If understood correctly, when using a tonel file repository to build up an image, Pharo seems instead to take the sources from some package-cache, which is out of sync, because the tonel file repo was updated from another image, with a different cache. I guess I can trick the file system but it is for the least very annoying, for the worst unreliable.

Le 10/12/2017 à 18:16, Hilaire a écrit :

...

I am using tonel format to install from and save to a local repository.

How to prevent Monticello/Configuration/Metacello to save packages to the image package-cache dir?

Even when installing from a configuration with repo on tonel file format, packages get created in the image package-cache directory.

I have read there and there, Pharo gets confused and uses wrongly the package-cache versions and not the local repo.

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

i want it I’m going to get it if i can click download on it i don’t care about 43MB is there an image stripper? ( Dolphin has an image stripper you can modify. after stripping the .exe file was about 6MB ) if this is 43MB of just DrGeo then i think it’s fine i don’t know what anybody else thinks and i don’t know much but it takes a few minutes to download at 1.5Mbits / second not really noticeable it has to be above 100MB at that speed to be noticeable in my opinion so can i do differential geometry in DrGeo? like general relativity? that would be cool. can it do Tensors? i have this book : einstein gravity in a nutshell and i have always wanted a numerical graphical way to go through these equations in there i guess there is that numerical package i got, is there a tensor package? i tried to write a tensor thing once i tried to boil it down to the minimum number of lines of KEGGenerator code and that was like 10 or less to do a tensor multiply but i never tested it yet Test first! so i want to get DrGeo now and i don’t care about 43MB now or soon it’s not really possible right now usually it would be but i am out of my usual country On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 00:33 Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu> wrote:

Le 18/01/2018 à 05:30, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

...

Which Pharo version? P7 Have you found any solution to this?

I find a workaround. My bash script to build DrGeo image just remove the content of the package-cache directory.

...

In Gofer there was #disablePackageCache, in Metacello I don't know, maybe experimenting with MetacelloLoaderPolicy but there are no class comments.

I am now done with this problem, and I will not get back to it right now. Thanks to ask and the suggestion, it could be useful to other.

I have other serious concern as the resulting size of the DrGeo image built against P7, 43MB. I feel ashame to make any public DrGeo release with such an important image size.

Hilaire

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Should we not block this account? It looks generated … although it is quite scary how not easy it is to not figure this out. Cheers, Doru

On Jan 18, 2018, at 12:04 PM, Kjell Godo <squeaklist@gmail.com> wrote:

it’s those weight limits on the luggage they spook you they spooked me they spooked us but they are not really limits you just have to pay more but you don’t actually find that out until you get there or if you want to spend an hour on the phone asking about it well probably only 20 minutes actually but you have to know that you can ask this question that it is a valid question to ask which apparently we did not so i left something behind Won’t do that again

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 02:45 Kjell Godo <squeaklist@gmail.com> wrote: i want it I’m going to get it if i can click download on it i don’t care about 43MB

is there an image stripper? ( Dolphin has an image stripper you can modify. after stripping the .exe file was about 6MB )

if this is 43MB of just DrGeo then i think it’s fine i don’t know what anybody else thinks and i don’t know much but it takes a few minutes to download at 1.5Mbits / second not really noticeable it has to be above 100MB at that speed to be noticeable in my opinion

so can i do differential geometry in DrGeo? like general relativity? that would be cool. can it do Tensors? i have this book : einstein gravity in a nutshell and i have always wanted a numerical graphical way to go through these equations in there i guess there is that numerical package i got, is there a tensor package? i tried to write a tensor thing once i tried to boil it down to the minimum number of lines of KEGGenerator code and that was like 10 or less to do a tensor multiply but i never tested it yet Test first!

so i want to get DrGeo now and i don’t care about 43MB now or soon it’s not really possible right now usually it would be but i am out of my usual country

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 00:33 Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu> wrote: Le 18/01/2018 à 05:30, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

...

Which Pharo version? P7 Have you found any solution to this?

I find a workaround. My bash script to build DrGeo image just remove the content of the package-cache directory.

...

In Gofer there was #disablePackageCache, in Metacello I don't know, maybe experimenting with MetacelloLoaderPolicy but there are no class comments.

I am now done with this problem, and I will not get back to it right now. Thanks to ask and the suggestion, it could be useful to other.

I have other serious concern as the resulting size of the DrGeo image built against P7, 43MB. I feel ashame to make any public DrGeo release with such an important image size.

Hilaire

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Speaking louder won't make the point worthier."

yes, I will do that. I definitely is a bot I think the same that posted nonsense to Discord and years ago already to this list. Marcus

On 18 Jan 2018, at 12:08, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:

Should we not block this account? It looks generated … although it is quite scary how not easy it is to not figure this out.

Cheers, Doru

...

On Jan 18, 2018, at 12:04 PM, Kjell Godo <squeaklist@gmail.com> wrote:

it’s those weight limits on the luggage they spook you they spooked me they spooked us but they are not really limits you just have to pay more but you don’t actually find that out until you get there or if you want to spend an hour on the phone asking about it well probably only 20 minutes actually but you have to know that you can ask this question that it is a valid question to ask which apparently we did not so i left something behind Won’t do that again

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 02:45 Kjell Godo <squeaklist@gmail.com> wrote: i want it I’m going to get it if i can click download on it i don’t care about 43MB

is there an image stripper? ( Dolphin has an image stripper you can modify. after stripping the .exe file was about 6MB )

if this is 43MB of just DrGeo then i think it’s fine i don’t know what anybody else thinks and i don’t know much but it takes a few minutes to download at 1.5Mbits / second not really noticeable it has to be above 100MB at that speed to be noticeable in my opinion

so can i do differential geometry in DrGeo? like general relativity? that would be cool. can it do Tensors? i have this book : einstein gravity in a nutshell and i have always wanted a numerical graphical way to go through these equations in there i guess there is that numerical package i got, is there a tensor package? i tried to write a tensor thing once i tried to boil it down to the minimum number of lines of KEGGenerator code and that was like 10 or less to do a tensor multiply but i never tested it yet Test first!

so i want to get DrGeo now and i don’t care about 43MB now or soon it’s not really possible right now usually it would be but i am out of my usual country

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 00:33 Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu> wrote: Le 18/01/2018 à 05:30, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

...

Which Pharo version? P7 Have you found any solution to this?

I find a workaround. My bash script to build DrGeo image just remove the content of the package-cache directory.

...

In Gofer there was #disablePackageCache, in Metacello I don't know, maybe experimenting with MetacelloLoaderPolicy but there are no class comments.

I am now done with this problem, and I will not get back to it right now. Thanks to ask and the suggestion, it could be useful to other.

I have other serious concern as the resulting size of the DrGeo image built against P7, 43MB. I feel ashame to make any public DrGeo release with such an important image size.

Hilaire

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com

"Speaking louder won't make the point worthier."

Honestly there is some “minimal level of conduct” that people need to follow. Something named picoVerse has spammed like this in the past and was kicked out, too. Marcus

On 18 Jan 2018, at 14:58, PBKResearch <peter@pbkresearch.co.uk> wrote:

Are you sure it's a bot? Google the name - there is a real person living near Seattle, with an interest in Smalltalk. I think the same person posts on the Dolphin list using the name picoVerse. Granted the style is weird and it often doesn't seem to make sense, but it's a person.

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Marcus Denker Sent: 18 January 2018 12:47 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] unsolicited package-cache use

yes, I will do that. I definitely is a bot I think the same that posted nonsense to Discord and years ago already to this list.

Marcus

...

On 18 Jan 2018, at 12:08, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:

Should we not block this account? It looks generated … although it is quite scary how not easy it is to not figure this out.

Cheers, Doru

...

On Jan 18, 2018, at 12:04 PM, Kjell Godo <squeaklist@gmail.com> wrote:

it’s those weight limits on the luggage they spook you they spooked me they spooked us but they are not really limits you just have to pay more but you don’t actually find that out until you get there or if you want to spend an hour on the phone asking about it well probably only 20 minutes actually but you have to know that you can ask this question that it is a valid question to ask which apparently we did not so i left something behind Won’t do that again

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 02:45 Kjell Godo <squeaklist@gmail.com> wrote: i want it I’m going to get it if i can click download on it i don’t care about 43MB

is there an image stripper? ( Dolphin has an image stripper you can modify. after stripping the .exe file was about 6MB )

if this is 43MB of just DrGeo then i think it’s fine i don’t know what anybody else thinks and i don’t know much but it takes a few minutes to download at 1.5Mbits / second not really noticeable it has to be above 100MB at that speed to be noticeable in my opinion

so can i do differential geometry in DrGeo? like general relativity? that would be cool. can it do Tensors? i have this book : einstein gravity in a nutshell and i have always wanted a numerical graphical way to go through these equations in there i guess there is that numerical package i got, is there a tensor package? i tried to write a tensor thing once i tried to boil it down to the minimum number of lines of KEGGenerator code and that was like 10 or less to do a tensor multiply but i never tested it yet Test first!

so i want to get DrGeo now and i don’t care about 43MB now or soon it’s not really possible right now usually it would be but i am out of my usual country

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 00:33 Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu> wrote: Le 18/01/2018 à 05:30, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

...

Which Pharo version? P7 Have you found any solution to this?

I find a workaround. My bash script to build DrGeo image just remove the content of the package-cache directory.

...

In Gofer there was #disablePackageCache, in Metacello I don't know, maybe experimenting with MetacelloLoaderPolicy but there are no class comments.

I am now done with this problem, and I will not get back to it right now. Thanks to ask and the suggestion, it could be useful to other.

I have other serious concern as the resulting size of the DrGeo image built against P7, 43MB. I feel ashame to make any public DrGeo release with such an important image size.

Hilaire

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com

"Speaking louder won't make the point worthier."

Ok, the scary part get out then. According to what I understood, here three things for Kjell regarding his interest on DrGeo: 1) Get my latest DrGeo build[1]. The shipped VM within the application is out of sync, therefore a recent 32Bits VM should be used against the image located in DrGeo.app/Contets/Resources/drgeo.image 2) Concerning differential geometric, I don't know much. However DrGeo can be programmatically drived, particularly point defined by bloc can be useful to produce interactive graph with point interacting in cascade. See this Newton-Raphson example[2] Dr. Geo on Netwo-Raphson method 3) There is doc for programming DrGeo but the English version is a bit out of sync, http://www.drgeo.eu/help Hilaire [1] https://www.dropbox.com/s/wc18e21p371z28f/DrGeo.app-18.01a.zip?dl=0 [2] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/726369/when-does-the-newton-raphson... Le 18/01/2018 à 15:06, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit :

I browsed some other posts from this account to the lists on Nabble. They were more obviously on topic. Also, I met Kjell at a Smalltalk conference or two. My experience was that he speaks from a meta level and you have to connect the dots yourself, which can be difficult to follow. IMHO he should not be banned.

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Hilaire, Metacello just uses Monticello for loading and it is Monticello that is using the package-cache ... if there were a way to turn of the package-cache for Monticello I don't think that Metacello would know the difference. But, I am curious why you care whether or not package is used? Is there a specific problem that you are having? Dale On 1/17/18 8:30 PM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

Hi Hilaire,

Which Pharo version? Have you found any solution to this? In Gofer there was #disablePackageCache, in Metacello I don't know, maybe experimenting with MetacelloLoaderPolicy but there are no class comments. Cheers,

Hernán

2017-12-18 17:24 GMT-03:00 Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu>:

...

If understood correctly, when using a tonel file repository to build up an image, Pharo seems instead to take the sources from some package-cache, which is out of sync, because the tonel file repo was updated from another image, with a different cache. I guess I can trick the file system but it is for the least very annoying, for the worst unreliable.

Le 10/12/2017 à 18:16, Hilaire a écrit :

...

I am using tonel format to install from and save to a local repository.

How to prevent Monticello/Configuration/Metacello to save packages to the image package-cache dir?

Even when installing from a configuration with repo on tonel file format, packages get created in the image package-cache directory.

I have read there and there, Pharo gets confused and uses wrongly the package-cache versions and not the local repo.

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Hilaire, Have you included a method in your BaselineOf that looks like this: projectClass     ^ MetacelloCypressBaselineProject if not, then what looks like a package-cache problem could be that you haven't told Metacello that you are using a metadataless filetree/tonel repository. Metacello has an internal rule to not load Monticello packages of the same version, since they are already loaded. However, when using metadataless repositories the filetree/tonel Monticello package readers typically generate a package name using the author/version `-cypress.1`, which make Metacello think that the versions are the same and the package is not loaded ... by including the above method in your baselineof, Metacello will know to ignore the Monticello author/version of the package and always load it.... Of course, because Monticello only installs changed definitions when loading a package, "loading the same package over and over again" costs a little bit in loading the _definitions_ into the image from disk, but doesn't end up compiling any new methods or creating new classes ... Dale On 1/18/18 6:49 AM, Hilaire wrote:

It was a month ago; I don't remember the details but from what I can recover from my memory the scenario was:

- From my dev. environment I saved code through Tonel, in the DrGeo used CVS.

- When building, I specifically ask the code saved thought Tonel to be installed but the package-cache code version was used instead. It could be out of sync.

Le 18/01/2018 à 15:22, Dale Henrichs a écrit :

...

Hilaire,

Metacello just uses Monticello for loading and it is Monticello that is using the package-cache ... if there were a way to turn of the package-cache for Monticello I don't think that Metacello would know the difference.

But, I am curious why you care whether or not package is used?

Is there a specific problem that you are having?

Dale

Hilaire A BaselineOf is the equivalent in better to a ConifgurationOf The key benefit is that you just specify a kind of ConfigurationOf baseline and you are done No need to express manually versions. With a baseline you can get branches, a specific hash.... So you have all the power but with less burden. Side: I do not like the git API but I coding with git and the branches are really really nice. You can have multiple versions - release - dev - dev + a features and simply manage it So git is really a plus With Iceberg 20, you will also be able to manage external ressources (icons, text...) and this is cool Stef ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu> Date: Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] unsolicited package-cache use To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org Hi Dale, Sorry to reply very lately to your help email, I am getting slow on Pharo those those days. I am afraid to be a bit out of sync: what is a BaselineOf? I only have a ConfigurationOfDrGeo and baseline methods into. Hilaire Le 18/01/2018 à 16:10, Dale Henrichs a écrit :

Hilaire,

Have you included a method in your BaselineOf that looks like this:

projectClass

^ MetacelloCypressBaselineProject

if not, then what looks like a package-cache problem could be that you haven't told Metacello that you are using a metadataless filetree/tonel repository.

Metacello has an internal rule to not load Monticello packages of the same version, since they are already loaded. However, when using metadataless repositories the filetree/tonel Monticello package readers typically generate a package name using the author/version `-cypress.1`, which make Metacello think that the versions are the same and the package is not loaded ... by including the above method in your baselineof, Metacello will know to ignore the Monticello author/version of the package and always load it....

Of course, because Monticello only installs changed definitions when loading a package, "loading the same package over and over again" costs a little bit in loading the _definitions_ into the image from disk, but doesn't end up compiling any new methods or creating new classes ...

Dale

On 1/18/18 6:49 AM, Hilaire wrote:

...

It was a month ago; I don't remember the details but from what I can recover from my memory the scenario was:

- From my dev. environment I saved code through Tonel, in the DrGeo used CVS.

- When building, I specifically ask the code saved thought Tonel to be installed but the package-cache code version was used instead. It could be out of sync.

Le 18/01/2018 à 15:22, Dale Henrichs a écrit :

...

Hilaire,

Metacello just uses Monticello for loading and it is Monticello that is using the package-cache ... if there were a way to turn of the package-cache for Monticello I don't think that Metacello would know the difference.

But, I am curious why you care whether or not package is used?

Is there a specific problem that you are having?

Dale

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Reading the BaselineOf class comment, will start with that.. Le 02/04/2018 à 21:13, Hilaire a écrit :

My needs are simple, but still I don't understand what I should do from my ConfigurationOfDrGeo

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Thanks for the update. I will see, I don't use GIT and will not as drgeo code is on Launchpad and the CVS is Bazaar. Launchpad comes with handing tooling to ease the work of translators. Hilaire Le 03/04/2018 à 00:01, Thierry Goubier a écrit :

Hi Hilaire,

a BaselineOf is the same as a baseline method in a ConfigurationOf: a list of packages with their prerequisites and groups.

What the BaselineOf does not contain are methods describing versions with package versions and author names; instead, what a BaselineOf says is: fetch the latest(*) version(**) of each package I have listed in my baseline from the repository you found me in(***).

Thierry

(*) if there is more than one. With git, only one, with smalltalkhub, more than one.

(**) a repository is supposed to contain package versions, even if that version is -cypress.1 (metadata-less filetree).

(***) A repository here is a http one (i.e. smalltalkhub), a directory in a branch in git, a tag in git, a directory on disk, a ftp directory, etc...

PS: the power of Baselines + Git comes from the fact that you get a repository per branch / per tag.

PS2: it is possible to have multiple repositories, and rewrite as "latest version ... in the repositories... ". I have a use case or two for that feature.

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu