The Rationale behind Spec - questions
As a newcomer to smalltalk and Pharo I must say I love it - but I'm a little mystified by Spec. Just as I've got my head around Polymorph and can build an interface with UITheme builder, the paradigm has changed and Spec is the new standard way to create a UI. I read on a post that Polymorph is a UI framework but Spec is a UI description framework. But Spec isn't just a description like a XML representation of a UI - it brings new UI objects to the party - ButtonModel, LabelModel etc. But none of these have the rich properties of the corresponding Morphic objects. A ButtonModel looks nothing like a button, for example, and the LabelModel has nothing to set a font for the label. And it's not a description it's just more code. The only way I can see to create a rich interface using Spec is to create the interface using Morphs (and composite Morphs) and then using Spec mainly just to assemble and position them. So can someone wiser than I answer these questions for me: One, what is the purpose of Spec - what problem is it trying to solve? Two, what advantages are there to building a UI in Spec rather than building it directly in Polymorph? Three, why are the objects caled ButtonModel, LableModel etc when they are not models but UI components? Four, am I supposed to be assembling morphs using Spec? It works so is it right? To sum up, I'm quite sure Spec is an important new feature but at the moment I'm just not getting it. Can anyone help me on this?
On Apr 14, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Kenneth Payne <voxkmp@gmail.com> wrote:
As a newcomer to smalltalk and Pharo I must say I love it - but I'm a little mystified by Spec.
Just as I've got my head around Polymorph and can build an interface with UITheme builder, the paradigm has changed and Spec is the new standard way to create a UI.
I read on a post that Polymorph is a UI framework but Spec is a UI description framework. But Spec isn't just a description like a XML representation of a UI - it brings new UI objects to the party - ButtonModel, LabelModel etc. But none of these have the rich properties of the corresponding Morphic objects. A ButtonModel looks nothing like a button, for example, and the LabelModel has nothing to set a font for the label. And it's not a description it's just more code.
The only way I can see to create a rich interface using Spec is to create the interface using Morphs (and composite Morphs) and then using Spec mainly just to assemble and position them.
So can someone wiser than I answer these questions for me:
we have a paper explaining all that but we are waiting it to be accepted.
One, what is the purpose of Spec - what problem is it trying to solve?
reuse of composable widgets.
Two, what advantages are there to building a UI in Spec rather than building it directly in Polymorph?
been able to build the same with another UI framework. Being able to build a UIPainter how do you open a uipainter on widget that only have been defined using message? you develop an interpreter?
Three, why are the objects caled ButtonModel, LableModel etc when they are not models but UI components?
because they represent the logic of reuse and they are not widget.
Four, am I supposed to be assembling morphs using Spec? It works so is it right?
there is a tutorial and a videos Ben?
To sum up, I'm quite sure Spec is an important new feature but at the moment I'm just not getting it.
Can anyone help me on this?
Ben On Apr 15, 2013, at 8:15 AM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse@free.fr> wrote:
On Apr 14, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Kenneth Payne <voxkmp@gmail.com> wrote:
As a newcomer to smalltalk and Pharo I must say I love it - but I'm a little mystified by Spec.
Just as I've got my head around Polymorph and can build an interface with UITheme builder, the paradigm has changed and Spec is the new standard way to create a UI.
I read on a post that Polymorph is a UI framework but Spec is a UI description framework. But Spec isn't just a description like a XML representation of a UI - it brings new UI objects to the party - ButtonModel, LabelModel etc. But none of these have the rich properties of the corresponding Morphic objects. A ButtonModel looks nothing like a button, for example, and the LabelModel has nothing to set a font for the label. And it's not a description it's just more code.
The only way I can see to create a rich interface using Spec is to create the interface using Morphs (and composite Morphs) and then using Spec mainly just to assemble and position them.
So can someone wiser than I answer these questions for me:
we have a paper explaining all that but we are waiting it to be accepted.
One, what is the purpose of Spec - what problem is it trying to solve?
reuse of composable widgets.
Two, what advantages are there to building a UI in Spec rather than building it directly in Polymorph?
been able to build the same with another UI framework. Being able to build a UIPainter how do you open a uipainter on widget that only have been defined using message? you develop an interpreter?
Three, why are the objects caled ButtonModel, LableModel etc when they are not models but UI components?
because they represent the logic of reuse and they are not widget.
Four, am I supposed to be assembling morphs using Spec? It works so is it right?
there is a tutorial and a videos Ben?
First paper: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00759030/ Tech Report: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00708067/ (a bit dry) About video, I am still processing the tutorial I have presented at Bern, but as soon as I have something, I will publicly announce it Have fun, Ben
To sum up, I'm quite sure Spec is an important new feature but at the moment I'm just not getting it.
Can anyone help me on this?
First paper: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00759030/ Tech Report: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00708067/ (a bit dry)
About video, I am still processing the tutorial I have presented at Bern, but as soon as I have something, I will publicly announce it
Ben yesterday I took the video I did about dice and I pasted that in a chapter. So may be we should do the same with your videos. Stef
Thanks to everyone who replied to my query. You've really helped me understand the purpose of Spec. I suppose Spec is still a work in progress and its power will become more and more apparent as time moves on. I'm using Spec myself now to build interfaces but until you can set a font in LabelModel, I'll be using it mainly to assemble and position morphs. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Rationale-behind-Spec-questions-tp4681363p4681989.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Apr 16, 2013, at 8:13 PM, kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks to everyone who replied to my query. You've really helped me understand the purpose of Spec.
I suppose Spec is still a work in progress and its power will become more and more apparent as time moves on. I'm using Spec myself now to build interfaces but until you can set a font in LabelModel,
add the functionality and we will integrate it.
I'll be using it mainly to assemble and position morphs.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Rationale-behind-Spec-questions-tp4681363p4681989.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Kenneth, there is some literature on Spec that might help you out. - The tech report serves as a 'getting started' http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/70/80/67/PDF/SpecTechReport.pdf - Also, we published a paper that talks more about the motivations behind spec and itsadvantages.http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2448963.2448965 I can send you a preprint in a direct message if you are unable to download it. Greetings, On Apr 14, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Kenneth Payne <voxkmp@gmail.com> wrote:
As a newcomer to smalltalk and Pharo I must say I love it - but I'm a little mystified by Spec.
Just as I've got my head around Polymorph and can build an interface with UITheme builder, the paradigm has changed and Spec is the new standard way to create a UI.
I read on a post that Polymorph is a UI framework but Spec is a UI description framework. But Spec isn't just a description like a XML representation of a UI - it brings new UI objects to the party - ButtonModel, LabelModel etc. But none of these have the rich properties of the corresponding Morphic objects. A ButtonModel looks nothing like a button, for example, and the LabelModel has nothing to set a font for the label. And it's not a description it's just more code.
The only way I can see to create a rich interface using Spec is to create the interface using Morphs (and composite Morphs) and then using Spec mainly just to assemble and position them.
So can someone wiser than I answer these questions for me:
One, what is the purpose of Spec - what problem is it trying to solve?
Two, what advantages are there to building a UI in Spec rather than building it directly in Polymorph?
Three, why are the objects caled ButtonModel, LableModel etc when they are not models but UI components?
Four, am I supposed to be assembling morphs using Spec? It works so is it right?
To sum up, I'm quite sure Spec is an important new feature but at the moment I'm just not getting it.
Can anyone help me on this?
---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
Preprint would be welcome over here as well :-) 2013/4/15 Johan Fabry <jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl>
Hi Kenneth,
there is some literature on Spec that might help you out.
- The tech report serves as a 'getting started' http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/70/80/67/PDF/SpecTechReport.pdf - Also, we published a paper that talks more about the motivations behind spec and itsadvantages.http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2448963.2448965I can send you a preprint in a direct message if you are unable to download it.
Greetings,
On Apr 14, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Kenneth Payne <voxkmp@gmail.com> wrote:
As a newcomer to smalltalk and Pharo I must say I love it - but I'm a little mystified by Spec.
Just as I've got my head around Polymorph and can build an interface with UITheme builder, the paradigm has changed and Spec is the new standard way to create a UI.
I read on a post that Polymorph is a UI framework but Spec is a UI description framework. But Spec isn't just a description like a XML representation of a UI - it brings new UI objects to the party - ButtonModel, LabelModel etc. But none of these have the rich properties of the corresponding Morphic objects. A ButtonModel looks nothing like a button, for example, and the LabelModel has nothing to set a font for the label. And it's not a description it's just more code.
The only way I can see to create a rich interface using Spec is to create the interface using Morphs (and composite Morphs) and then using Spec mainly just to assemble and position them.
So can someone wiser than I answer these questions for me:
One, what is the purpose of Spec - what problem is it trying to solve?
Two, what advantages are there to building a UI in Spec rather than building it directly in Polymorph?
Three, why are the objects caled ButtonModel, LableModel etc when they are not models but UI components?
Four, am I supposed to be assembling morphs using Spec? It works so is it right?
To sum up, I'm quite sure Spec is an important new feature but at the moment I'm just not getting it.
Can anyone help me on this?
---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---
Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
Hi Phil, sorry for the confusion.The paper is actually available on-line for free here: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00759030/ My bad. Enjoy! On Apr 15, 2013, at 9:47 AM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
Preprint would be welcome over here as well :-)
2013/4/15 Johan Fabry <jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl> Hi Kenneth,
there is some literature on Spec that might help you out.
- The tech report serves as a 'getting started' http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/70/80/67/PDF/SpecTechReport.pdf - Also, we published a paper that talks more about the motivations behind spec and itsadvantages.http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2448963.2448965 I can send you a preprint in a direct message if you are unable to download it.
Greetings,
---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl> wrote:
Hi Phil,
sorry for the confusion.The paper is actually available on-line for free here: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00759030/ My bad
The fun thing is that Inria now has the offical policy that any paper that is not on HAL for free download will not be counted in any of our internal reviews and we are not allowed to even mention it in official reports. Quite nice. -- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
A big +1 to that :-) We actually have a similar policy at the level of the department here, everything is online on https://upapers.dcc.uchile.cl/ But this is only after it has been published and then it takes a month, so the Spec paper is still in the pipeline here ... On Apr 15, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
The fun thing is that Inria now has the offical policy that any paper that is not on HAL for free download will not be counted in any of our internal reviews and we are not allowed to even mention it in official reports. Quite nice.
---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
To amend my last statement, the link that Ben sent, to the first paper is the same published paper I am talking about, so you can freely get it there :-) On Apr 15, 2013, at 9:02 AM, Johan Fabry <jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl> wrote:
Hi Kenneth,
there is some literature on Spec that might help you out.
- The tech report serves as a 'getting started' http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/70/80/67/PDF/SpecTechReport.pdf - Also, we published a paper that talks more about the motivations behind spec anditsadvantages.http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2448963.2448965 I can send you a preprint in a direct message if you are unable to download it.
Greetings,
---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
participants (7)
-
Benjamin -
Johan Fabry -
Kenneth Payne -
kmo
-
Marcus Denker -
phil＠highoctane.be -
stephane ducasse