Retina support in Pharo
Hi Is it possible to get Pharo (4 or 5) to run with retina support on OS X? I have tried searching for some answers, but alas could only find a handful of posts from a few years back. Any help much appreciated! Mark -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Retina-support-in-Pharo-tp4895245.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I asked about this just a few days ago, here's the reply: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-HiDPI-tc4894853.html On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:37 PM, markm <mjmzen@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
Is it possible to get Pharo (4 or 5) to run with retina support on OS X? I have tried searching for some answers, but alas could only find a handful of posts from a few years back.
Any help much appreciated!
Mark
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Retina-support-in-Pharo-tp4895245.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- LuÃs Felipe Strano Moraes http://www.strano.org
I am about to buy a new laptop. Pharo does not work with Retina display? How can it be? Alexandre
On May 17, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Luis Felipe Strano Moraes <luis.strano@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked about this just a few days ago, here's the reply:
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-HiDPI-tc4894853.html
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:37 PM, markm <mjmzen@gmail.com> wrote: Hi
Is it possible to get Pharo (4 or 5) to run with retina support on OS X? I have tried searching for some answers, but alas could only find a handful of posts from a few years back.
Any help much appreciated!
Mark
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Retina-support-in-Pharo-tp4895245.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- LuÃs Felipe Strano Moraes http://www.strano.org
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
it works. just fonts could be better (and eventually, they will). Esteban
On 17 May 2016, at 21:32, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
I am about to buy a new laptop. Pharo does not work with Retina display? How can it be?
Alexandre
On May 17, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Luis Felipe Strano Moraes <luis.strano@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked about this just a few days ago, here's the reply:
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-HiDPI-tc4894853.html
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:37 PM, markm <mjmzen@gmail.com> wrote: Hi
Is it possible to get Pharo (4 or 5) to run with retina support on OS X? I have tried searching for some answers, but alas could only find a handful of posts from a few years back.
Any help much appreciated!
Mark
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Retina-support-in-Pharo-tp4895245.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- LuÃs Felipe Strano Moraes http://www.strano.org
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Okay, this is what I suspected. So buying a new laptop will not prevent me from using Pharo :-) Alexandre
On May 17, 2016, at 2:38 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
it works. just fonts could be better (and eventually, they will).
Esteban
On 17 May 2016, at 21:32, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
I am about to buy a new laptop. Pharo does not work with Retina display? How can it be?
Alexandre
On May 17, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Luis Felipe Strano Moraes <luis.strano@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked about this just a few days ago, here's the reply:
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-HiDPI-tc4894853.html
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:37 PM, markm <mjmzen@gmail.com> wrote: Hi
Is it possible to get Pharo (4 or 5) to run with retina support on OS X? I have tried searching for some answers, but alas could only find a handful of posts from a few years back.
Any help much appreciated!
Mark
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Retina-support-in-Pharo-tp4895245.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- LuÃs Felipe Strano Moraes http://www.strano.org
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the better fonts, but also appreciate all the hard work everyone has put in so far! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Retina-support-in-Pharo-tp4895245p4895558.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I am about to buy a new laptop. Pharo does not work with Retina display? How can it be? Alexandre I'm sorry to see this email. We all worked like mad and Esteban did A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF WORK. Nearly nobody on this list really understand what is to write a new FFI framework and Esteban got nearly burnt by Spur and by UFFI. It was not our plan to get forced to do such tasks. So Esteban did not time to work on Retina support. It looks quite simple to me.
Now what all pharoers should deeply understand is that if - people would not only focus on their projects (even if they are important) but help with pharo issues, then core engineers would have more time for the things that others cannot do. Easy no. - the pharo consortium does not raise enough money we will not be able to pay Esteban in the future. So enjoy this moment because we have Esteban on managing releases and all the dirty work Nicolas Passerini payed by the consortium for 9 months to work on Git support Pavel to work on bootstrap, bugfixes and pharo distributions Christophe Demarey 60% on bootstrap and pharo package manager Guillermo 60% on bootstrap and others And this will not be forever. Stef
Alexandre
On May 17, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Luis Felipe Strano Moraes <luis.strano@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked about this just a few days ago, here's the reply:
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-HiDPI-tc4894853.html
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:37 PM, markm <mjmzen@gmail.com> wrote: Hi
Is it possible to get Pharo (4 or 5) to run with retina support on OS X? I have tried searching for some answers, but alas could only find a handful of posts from a few years back.
Any help much appreciated!
Mark
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Retina-support-in-Pharo-tp4895245.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- LuÃs Felipe Strano Moraes http://www.strano.org
My email was _not_ about judging the community effort, but more on whether pharo work on a Retina laptop. What happens if Pharo is launched on a retina computer? Cheers, Alexandre
On May 17, 2016, at 2:47 PM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
I am about to buy a new laptop. Pharo does not work with Retina display? How can it be? Alexandre I'm sorry to see this email. We all worked like mad and Esteban did A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF WORK. Nearly nobody on this list really understand what is to write a new FFI framework and Esteban got nearly burnt by Spur and by UFFI. It was not our plan to get forced to do such tasks. So Esteban did not time to work on Retina support. It looks quite simple to me.
Now what all pharoers should deeply understand is that if - people would not only focus on their projects (even if they are important) but help with pharo issues, then core engineers would have more time for the things that others cannot do. Easy no. - the pharo consortium does not raise enough money we will not be able to pay Esteban in the future.
So enjoy this moment because we have Esteban on managing releases and all the dirty work Nicolas Passerini payed by the consortium for 9 months to work on Git support Pavel to work on bootstrap, bugfixes and pharo distributions Christophe Demarey 60% on bootstrap and pharo package manager Guillermo 60% on bootstrap and others
And this will not be forever. Stef
Alexandre
On May 17, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Luis Felipe Strano Moraes <luis.strano@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked about this just a few days ago, here's the reply:
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-HiDPI-tc4894853.html
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:37 PM, markm <mjmzen@gmail.com> wrote: Hi
Is it possible to get Pharo (4 or 5) to run with retina support on OS X? I have tried searching for some answers, but alas could only find a handful of posts from a few years back.
Any help much appreciated!
Mark
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Retina-support-in-Pharo-tp4895245.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- LuÃs Felipe Strano Moraes http://www.strano.org
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Le 17/5/16 à 22:14, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
My email was _not_ about judging the community effort, but more on whether pharo work on a Retina laptop.
ok
What happens if Pharo is launched on a retina computer?
you get pixelized fonts. But I have other mac app doing the same. Stef
Cheers, Alexandre
On May 17, 2016, at 2:47 PM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
I am about to buy a new laptop. Pharo does not work with Retina display? How can it be? Alexandre I'm sorry to see this email. We all worked like mad and Esteban did A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF WORK. Nearly nobody on this list really understand what is to write a new FFI framework and Esteban got nearly burnt by Spur and by UFFI. It was not our plan to get forced to do such tasks. So Esteban did not time to work on Retina support. It looks quite simple to me.
Now what all pharoers should deeply understand is that if - people would not only focus on their projects (even if they are important) but help with pharo issues, then core engineers would have more time for the things that others cannot do. Easy no. - the pharo consortium does not raise enough money we will not be able to pay Esteban in the future.
So enjoy this moment because we have Esteban on managing releases and all the dirty work Nicolas Passerini payed by the consortium for 9 months to work on Git support Pavel to work on bootstrap, bugfixes and pharo distributions Christophe Demarey 60% on bootstrap and pharo package manager Guillermo 60% on bootstrap and others
And this will not be forever. Stef
Alexandre
On May 17, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Luis Felipe Strano Moraes <luis.strano@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked about this just a few days ago, here's the reply:
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-HiDPI-tc4894853.html
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:37 PM, markm <mjmzen@gmail.com> wrote: Hi
Is it possible to get Pharo (4 or 5) to run with retina support on OS X? I have tried searching for some answers, but alas could only find a handful of posts from a few years back.
Any help much appreciated!
Mark
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Retina-support-in-Pharo-tp4895245.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- LuÃs Felipe Strano Moraes http://www.strano.org
On 17 May 2016 at 22:14, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
My email was _not_ about judging the community effort, but more on whether pharo work on a Retina laptop. What happens if Pharo is launched on a retina computer?
You get the same thing as on a non-retina display, except instead of each fuzzy pixel you get a visibly sharper square made of 2Ã2 retina pixels.
From sufficiently far away there's no difference, but when you're right in front of it you can see the pixelation, especially for text and compared to HiDPI-enabled apps in nearby windows.
On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet+pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On 17 May 2016 at 22:14, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
My email was _not_ about judging the community effort, but more on whether pharo work on a Retina laptop. What happens if Pharo is launched on a retina computer?
You get the same thing as on a non-retina display, except instead of each fuzzy pixel you get a visibly sharper square made of 2Ã2 retina pixels. From sufficiently far away there's no difference, but when you're right in front of it you can see the pixelation, especially for text and compared to HiDPI-enabled apps in nearby windows.
I'm still having these peaky shadowed lines when I move the windows on my retina screen. -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/
You can also open an info window about the Pharo.app and check the âOpen in low resolutionâ box. Then you will have a real pixelated graphics and now blurry (which can be annoying). Cheers. Uko
On 17 May 2016, at 22:21, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet+pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On 17 May 2016 at 22:14, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com <mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>> wrote: My email was _not_ about judging the community effort, but more on whether pharo work on a Retina laptop. What happens if Pharo is launched on a retina computer?
You get the same thing as on a non-retina display, except instead of each fuzzy pixel you get a visibly sharper square made of 2Ã2 retina pixels. From sufficiently far away there's no difference, but when you're right in front of it you can see the pixelation, especially for text and compared to HiDPI-enabled apps in nearby windows.
Hi, Has any work been done of this? If not, could someone point me in the right direction to start it, perhaps with a list of what is already known about the issue? I'd be willing to look at both MacOS and Windows HiDPI rendering at the same time. Presumably the 64 bit MacOS build is Cocoa based, so that would be the right starting point? Although I have decades of experience of the above platforms, I'm a relative novice with the Smalltalk libraries - so any hints as to how the rendering process currently hangs together (and how much is Smalltalk vs native rendering) would be really helpful. Regards, Andy. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
I may be wrong but last time I checked access to the OS Graphics API was handled by the VM itself. There was a talk about decoupling that from the VM and porting it to the image but no idea if it happened. if it was the pragma primitive inside the method that means it calls native code , the second case is using the UFFI which is the official FFI of Pharo. The Pragma needs a VM rebuild , the UFFI does not. These are the two ways that Pharo intefaces with native code (C/ObjectiveC etc). So for starters you are going to need the VMMaker which is responsible for building the VM , the good news is that it retains a lot of the live coding characteristics and can even compile smalltalk to C (Slang) which is how it keeps most of the code in Smalltalk rather than C. If the Graphics API is still inside the VM then Eliot and other contributors will be able to point you at the VM mailing list at the right direction. If it is not then pharo-dev mailing list will most likely have the developer/s responsible for porting it to the image and they will also be able to point you to the right direction. I dont think experience in smalltalk would play a big role here mainly because its a C problem than a Smalltalk problem cause those libraries that offer Retina support are written and meant to be used by C (ObjC) , this applies for both primitive pragmas and UFFI. You experience with Cocoa is going to be the crucial factor here, if you know how to do it in C , doing it in Smalltalk is relative easy. You may also be able to pintpoint the methods responsible for the rendering by inserting a breakpoint in a window's draw method. The debugger should be able to give you the stack back to the primitive/uffi call. Of course it will require a bit of navigating around but such is the nature and curse of coding. On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 11:13 AM andyl <andylarder@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Has any work been done of this? If not, could someone point me in the right direction to start it, perhaps with a list of what is already known about the issue? I'd be willing to look at both MacOS and Windows HiDPI rendering at the same time.
Presumably the 64 bit MacOS build is Cocoa based, so that would be the right starting point?
Although I have decades of experience of the above platforms, I'm a relative novice with the Smalltalk libraries - so any hints as to how the rendering process currently hangs together (and how much is Smalltalk vs native rendering) would be really helpful.
Regards, Andy.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi Andy, I have not idea. But this would be a very valuable effort. Cheers, Alexandre
On Sep 18, 2018, at 5:12 AM, andyl <andylarder@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Has any work been done of this? If not, could someone point me in the right direction to start it, perhaps with a list of what is already known about the issue? I'd be willing to look at both MacOS and Windows HiDPI rendering at the same time.
Presumably the 64 bit MacOS build is Cocoa based, so that would be the right starting point?
Although I have decades of experience of the above platforms, I'm a relative novice with the Smalltalk libraries - so any hints as to how the rendering process currently hangs together (and how much is Smalltalk vs native rendering) would be really helpful.
Regards, Andy.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
participants (10)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
andyl -
Damien Pollet -
Dimitris Chloupis -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Luis Felipe Strano Moraes -
markm -
Serge Stinckwich -
stepharo -
Yuriy Tymchuk