Hi, I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it support. You can take a look here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr... The current solution can be found in the latest Pharo image. Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Hi Doru, works nicely and makes the playground for the first time actually usable for me. i like the way it works: the automatic commenting and that i only need to press enter. werner
Thanks for the feedback. I am still looking for concrete use cases why people need to see the printout in the editor. Could you provide an example of when you need it? Cheers, Doru On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Werner Kassens <wkassens@libello.com> wrote:
Hi Doru, works nicely and makes the playground for the first time actually usable for me. i like the way it works: the automatic commenting and that i only need to press enter. werner
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On 01/19/2015 10:07 AM, Tudor Girba wrote:
I am still looking for concrete use cases why people need to see the printout in the editor. Could you provide an example of when you need it? for example for making documentation like https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/SciSmalltalk/wiki/Math-DHB-wk werne
On 19 Jan 2015, at 06:07, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.
I am still looking for concrete use cases why people need to see the printout in the editor. Could you provide an example of when you need it?
I like to construct expressions step by step, printing the result inbetween. Marcus
Le 19/1/15 14:18, Marcus Denker a écrit :
On 19 Jan 2015, at 06:07, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.
I am still looking for concrete use cases why people need to see the printout in the editor. Could you provide an example of when you need it? I like to construct expressions step by step, printing the result inbetween.
but you have to remove them after. Normally for inbteween I look and discard it with esc then continue to the next one.
Marcus
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.
I am still looking for concrete use cases why people need to see the printout in the editor. Could you provide an example of when you need it?
Here is one I just had. I wanted to select the result of this... Object allMethods detect: [ :m | m senders size = 1 ] so that I could press the shortcut key for "all senders" on it to view that code. cheers -ben
Excerpts from Ben Coman's message of 2015-01-25 04:55:45 +0100:
I am still looking for concrete use cases why people need to see the printout in the editor. Could you provide an example of when you need it? Here is one I just had. I wanted to select the result of this... Object allMethods detect: [ :m | m senders size = 1 ] so that I could press the shortcut key for "all senders" on it to view that code.
shortcuts and mouse-clicks should work on the popup as they work on a selection. i had a case where the popup was to on the right edge partly off the screen that the inspect icon was not accessible. a problem in itself, but being able to use short-cuts as normal would have helped. greetings, martin. -- eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life -- chief engineer eKita.co pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org secretary beijinglug.org mentor fossasia.org foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com unix sysadmin Martin Bähr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
Hi Ben, In this case, why don't you inspect the list to the right and see a preview within the inspector? Cheers, Doru On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 4:55 AM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.
I am still looking for concrete use cases why people need to see the printout in the editor. Could you provide an example of when you need it?
Here is one I just had. I wanted to select the result of this...
Object allMethods detect: [ :m | m senders size = 1 ]
so that I could press the shortcut key for "all senders" on it to view that code.
cheers -ben
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
I am still looking for concrete use cases why people need to see the printout in the editor.
on my pharo i have usually several workspaces flying around, one of them usually start with Smalltalk garbageCollect . followed by a commented printout. if things get strange the commented printout can become a list. the next line normally looks like this: (ObjectImWorkinOn allInstances )size. followed by a commented printout. if things get strange the commented printout can become a list. werner
On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Ben,
In this case, why don't you inspect the list to the right and see a preview within the inspector?
Cheers, Doru
Maybe just habit. Sometimes its harder to change these little things, or even to recognise that you've got them. I'll keep my eyes open for a chance to do it the new way and see how it compares. cheers -ben
Thanks. Here are some examples: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/guiding-custom-changes-with-gtinspecto... http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/looking-for-hardcoded-traversal-method... http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/debugging-the-debugger-with-the-inspec... Doru On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Ben,
In this case, why don't you inspect the list to the right and see a preview within the inspector?
Cheers, Doru
Maybe just habit. Sometimes its harder to change these little things, or even to recognise that you've got them. I'll keep my eyes open for a chance to do it the new way and see how it compares. cheers -ben
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
one thing, i guess it could eventually be preferable if the comment would go on the next line so that one can repeatedly evaluate or print that line. this is at least a common use case for me. werner On 01/19/2015 10:01 AM, Werner Kassens wrote:
Hi Doru, works nicely and makes the playground for the first time actually usable for me. i like the way it works: the automatic commenting and that i only need to press enter. werner
Hi Werner, Aha. So, you want to compare multiple runs of the same code? Do you use the print-it for anything else? Cheers, Doru On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Werner Kassens <wkassens@libello.com> wrote:
one thing, i guess it could eventually be preferable if the comment would go on the next line so that one can repeatedly evaluate or print that line. this is at least a common use case for me. werner
On 01/19/2015 10:01 AM, Werner Kassens wrote:
Hi Doru, works nicely and makes the playground for the first time actually usable for me. i like the way it works: the automatic commenting and that i only need to press enter. werner
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Le 19/1/15 10:21, Tudor Girba a écrit :
Hi Werner,
Aha. So, you want to compare multiple runs of the same code?
not necessarily
Do you use the print-it for anything else?
keep trace.
Cheers, Doru
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Werner Kassens <wkassens@libello.com <mailto:wkassens@libello.com>> wrote:
one thing, i guess it could eventually be preferable if the comment would go on the next line so that one can repeatedly evaluate or print that line. this is at least a common use case for me. werner
On 01/19/2015 10:01 AM, Werner Kassens wrote:
Hi Doru, works nicely and makes the playground for the first time actually usable for me. i like the way it works: the automatic commenting and that i only need to press enter. werner
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
"Every thing has its own flow"
Le 19/1/15 10:15, Werner Kassens a écrit :
one thing, i guess it could eventually be preferable if the comment would go on the next line so that one can repeatedly evaluate or print that line. this is at least a common use case for me.
yes me too.
werner
On 01/19/2015 10:01 AM, Werner Kassens wrote:
Hi Doru, works nicely and makes the playground for the first time actually usable for me. i like the way it works: the automatic commenting and that i only need to press enter. werner
Le 19/1/15 10:01, Werner Kassens a écrit :
Hi Doru, works nicely and makes the playground for the first time actually usable for me. i like the way it works: the automatic commenting and that i only need to press enter.
:) I suggested to put it on the next line in addition :)
werner
For me, you nailed it. It makes Playgrounds even more useful. I also want this in every code pane, including all browsers.
On 19 Jan 2015, at 08:33, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it support. You can take a look here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr...
The current solution can be found in the latest Pharo image.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hello! Thanks for the change, I think it will come in handy. 2015-01-19 10:27 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
For me, you nailed it. It makes Playgrounds even more useful. I also want this in every code pane, including all browsers.
+1, if it's possible, I would like to see it in all code panes as well. Mark
Yes, the print-it now is much better than the classic ST behavior! I appreciate the latest feature of being able to get the response as commented text. I have needed that in the past, sporadically. (But I donât remember specific cases, sorry.)
On Jan 19, 2015, at 08:33, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it support. You can take a look here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr... <http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr...>
The current solution can be found in the latest Pharo image.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
Excerpts from Tudor Girba's message of 2015-01-19 08:33:04 +0100:
I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it support. You can take a look here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr...
have not tried it yet, but i wondered about this problem. as mentioned elsewhere, i too would like this in every textbox. most notably in the debugger where i do a lot of print-it to find out the value of some expression. i'd also like to pick up on the idea that when there is no selection the whole line will be evaluated (btw, there is a typo, you wrote like), and that line will only be highlighted. the idea is great, but what about if i do evaluate a selection? could in that case the selection be turned into a highlight? there is no way around to make a selection in order to evaluate it, (unless some form of shift-control-whatver-key+mouse selection is introduced) but once evaluated it is clear that i didn't intend to select to replace the text, and i'd like to avoid doing so accidentally. also, would it make sense to keep the highlight until another piece of code is evaluated? greetings, martin. -- eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life -- chief engineer eKita.co pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org secretary beijinglug.org mentor fossasia.org foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com unix sysadmin Martin Bähr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
A two-column UI similar to the Swift playground may be useful. Everything would be printed in parallel in a separate column. (The aforementioned output may be partially visually obscured by half a dozen means for output "typically" considered irrelevant â for example, perhaps a disclosure triangle for excessive lines.) And if one did a Do It on a selection in the "print" column, it would echo (copy) the selection over in the "workspace" column and show the printed action in the "print" column accordingly. There are many, many ways to implement all the details for smooth workflow behavior.
On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:33 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it support. You can take a look here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr...
The current solution can be found in the latest Pharo image.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
can you send a screen shot? Le 20/1/15 05:17, Brian Krent a écrit :
A two-column UI similar to the Swift playground may be useful. Everything would be printed in parallel in a separate column. (The aforementioned output may be partially visually obscured by half a dozen means for output "typically" considered irrelevant â for example, perhaps a disclosure triangle for excessive lines.) And if one did a Do It on a selection in the "print" column, it would echo (copy) the selection over in the "workspace" column and show the printed action in the "print" column accordingly. There are many, many ways to implement all the details for smooth workflow behavior.
On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:33 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:
Hi,
I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it support. You can take a look here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr...
The current solution can be found in the latest Pharo image.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
"Every thing has its own flow"
Itâs really nice to see innovation in this area. I feel grateful for this work. Here comes my UX notes Things I like: - Publish to the cloud - Able to copy-paste the content of the box with feedback - Encourages inspect of that very instance (this one was really good!) - transforms the printed result to comment. - clicking in the workspace makes the result disappear (good!) - full selects the comment after enter so a second enter can clean it - the shared snipped page has syntax highlight Things that I see can be improved: - the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one - the printed result transformed to comment gets injected at the cursor position and that functionality doesnât really make much sense (having it printed always at the end of the line you make more sense for example). - the inspect button doesnât look like a button and doesnât change the cursor on hover - No undo on cmd-z (this one feels like a deal-breaker) - The tab for me is a redundant feature with an unclean title (we have how to recall different workspaces from the bottom bar already) - The icon to publish to the cloud looks like download from the cloud (arrow points down instead of up) - The inspector is surprisingly complex and abuses the use of tabs - The inspector for Dictionary by default hides a naive observation of the object and assumes that a âsmartâ object aware presentation hiding behind a click the tree-like observation of instvars. - Also in inspector the icon for browse looks like a document, doesnât feel like a match good work!
On Jan 19, 2015, at 5:33 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it support. You can take a look here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr... <http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr...>
The current solution can be found in the latest Pharo image.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:24, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:
- the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one
He Seb, I designed that years ago over a WE - you're right, I am really good at design ;-) It is just one page, do you care to propose a make over in concrete html/css. If you want I can try to give you access to the code that generates it (it is not open source as yet). Sven
Sure, Iâd gladly sent you a merge request to get that improved Let me know how I could take a look
On Jan 25, 2015, at 3:34 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:24, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:
- the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one
He Seb,
I designed that years ago over a WE - you're right, I am really good at design ;-)
It is just one page, do you care to propose a make over in concrete html/css. If you want I can try to give you access to the code that generates it (it is not open source as yet).
Sven
On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:59, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:
Sure, Iâd gladly sent you a merge request to get that improved
Let me know how I could take a look
https://github.com/svenvc/zinc/tree/master/repository/Zinc-WWS-Server.packag... You can load this using ConfigurationOfZincHTTPComponents group 'WWS'. Start with the class comment of ZnWebWorkspaceDelegate the method you are looking for is #generatePageFor:withKey: Please touch only the HTML/CSS ;-) Thanks!
On Jan 25, 2015, at 3:34 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:24, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:
- the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one
He Seb,
I designed that years ago over a WE - you're right, I am really good at design ;-)
It is just one page, do you care to propose a make over in concrete html/css. If you want I can try to give you access to the code that generates it (it is not open source as yet).
Sven
thanks for making easy to contribute! Expect PR anytime
On Jan 25, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:59, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:
Sure, Iâd gladly sent you a merge request to get that improved
Let me know how I could take a look
https://github.com/svenvc/zinc/tree/master/repository/Zinc-WWS-Server.packag...
You can load this using ConfigurationOfZincHTTPComponents group 'WWS'.
Start with the class comment of ZnWebWorkspaceDelegate
the method you are looking for is #generatePageFor:withKey:
Please touch only the HTML/CSS ;-)
Thanks!
On Jan 25, 2015, at 3:34 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:24, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:
- the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one
He Seb,
I designed that years ago over a WE - you're right, I am really good at design ;-)
It is just one page, do you care to propose a make over in concrete html/css. If you want I can try to give you access to the code that generates it (it is not open source as yet).
Sven
Hi Sebastian, Thanks for the feedback. On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Sebastian Sastre < sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:
Itâs really nice to see innovation in this area. I feel grateful for this work.
Here comes my UX notes
*Things I like:*
- Publish to the cloud - Able to copy-paste the content of the box with feedback - Encourages inspect of that very instance (this one was really good!) - transforms the printed result to comment. - clicking in the workspace makes the result disappear (good!) - full selects the comment after enter so a second enter can clean it - the shared snipped page has syntax highlight
*Things that I see can be improved:*
- the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one - the printed result transformed to comment gets injected at the cursor position and that functionality doesnât really make much sense (having it printed always at the end of the line you make more sense for example).
This is still under work. The current behavior is the same as the previous print-it. We are considering all this input and we'll come back with a proposal. - the inspect button doesnât look like a button and doesnât change the
cursor on hover
- No undo on cmd-z (this one feels like a deal-breaker)
What do you mean? Undo should work as expected (even after I insert the code in the editor). Could you give me a way to reproduce the problem? - The tab for me is a redundant feature with an unclean title (we have how
to recall different workspaces from the bottom bar already)
This is a work in progress.
- The icon to publish to the cloud looks like download from the cloud (arrow points down instead of up)
Good point. I changed it.
- The inspector is surprisingly complex and abuses the use of tabs
What is complex? What do you mean by abuses the use of tabs? Could you give examples of what you saw and what you expected? In case you did not see it before, the GTInspector wants to be more than a classic inspector, so perhaps that is why the implementation does not seem to align with expectations. Here is a post that describes in some details the concept behind: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/the-moldable-gtinspector-deconstructed
- The inspector for Dictionary by default hides a naive observation of the object and assumes that a âsmartâ object aware presentation hiding behind a click the tree-like observation of instvars.
I am not sure what you are saying here, but If I understand correctly, you would prefer to see the raw tally and array of associations instead of a table as the first view for a dictionary. Is that is so, why do you find it a better representation? - Also in inspector the icon for browse looks like a document, doesnât feel
like a match
I am not happy with that one either, but I could not figure out a better one. Do you have a suggestion?
good work!
Thanks. Doru
On Jan 19, 2015, at 5:33 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it support. You can take a look here:
http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplaygr...
The current solution can be found in the latest Pharo image.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
participants (11)
-
Ben Coman -
Brian Krent -
Johan Fabry -
Marcus Denker -
Mark Rizun -
Martin Bähr -
Sebastian Sastre -
stepharo -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Tudor Girba -
Werner Kassens