Thank you Thierry , guess i am an user. " I have heared there are Pharo programmers" Can i download such a program to see how good they are ? I dont want to hear anything about coding and IDE and development. I am a user and want to start a example program. Do you have a LINK for me to download ? Hans This sounds strange. However , i have here a huge range of books about smalltalk 80. All the books describe the syntax and system. To write a better and better code and more functions. The only thing that is not describes is to display a running program inside image. The keywords and methods to display and save the own code inside the packages in the form of "image out" a manipulated smalltalk image to run as a user program. The first step is a really really simple program like mathematic calculation etc. But the procedure of end product must be clear. Only one good example perhaps with a transcript display can overcome theese difficulties. Its all unclear : show Transcript openInWorld class new class Theese commands are messages to a object. But the user does not input any program code. This is automatic running. Anyway , if the Pharo.exe started the image in the program. How , and with what keyword is then the program started fullscreen - which World is invoked to display? This preparation point is unclear when i want to make my "Allready written program" ready to start. However , i make a break with smalltalk now. A few books are still ordered from USA. If this point is unclear i cannot learn further at this point. It makes no sense to write Packages and classes if i cannot invoke the running arrangements No matter if they are objects or others.
no pain , no gain On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Hans Schueren <werbung@hans-schueren.de> wrote:
Thank you Thierry ,
guess i am an user.
" I have heared there are Pharo programmers"
Can i download such a program to see how good they are ?
I dont want to hear anything about coding and IDE and development.
I am a user and want to start a example program.
Do you have a LINK for me to download ?
Hans
This sounds strange.
However , i have here a huge range of books about smalltalk 80.
All the books describe the syntax and system.
To write a better and better code and more functions.
The only thing that is not describes is to display a running program inside image.
The keywords and methods to display and save the own code inside the packages in the
form of "image out" a manipulated smalltalk image to run as a user program.
The first step is a really really simple program like mathematic calculation etc.
But the procedure of end product must be clear.
Only one good example perhaps with a transcript display can overcome theese difficulties.
Its all unclear :
show Transcript
openInWorld
class new class
Theese commands are messages to a object.
But the user does not input any program code. This is automatic running.
Anyway , if the Pharo.exe started the image in the program. How , and with what keyword is then the program started fullscreen - which World is invoked to display?
This preparation point is unclear when i want to make my "Allready written program" ready to start.
However , i make a break with smalltalk now.
A few books are still ordered from USA.
If this point is unclear i cannot learn further at this point.
It makes no sense to write Packages and classes if i cannot invoke the running arrangements No matter if they are objects or others.
Unlike in C/ C++ world where packaging creates an exe, Smalltalk has no packaged content for its program. Similar to Smalltalk is Java that packages its code / compiled bytecode as a jar . This jar can be "executable" but per se what it does is to start a JVM with loading of all the necessary dependent jars and runs the code of the "Program/ Application" jar. Smalltalk is a little different that we package the code for an application with all of its dependencies etc in the "image" file that contains the compiled bytecode of the code written. You just invoke the image with the pharo.exe vm engine viz: ************************************
From a coder/ programmer perspective, it is quite a shift to understand that you do not have a standalone 5 line code that creates a "Helloworld"
You write inside the IDE, the required class and method with its statement. The application packaging and delivery is a little more involved. So once you cross a barrier of understanding how to write code inside the IDE and see it running within the IDE with no visible "Compile - Run" cycle. On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Hans Schueren <werbung@hans-schueren.de> wrote:
Thank you Thierry ,
guess i am an user.
" I have heared there are Pharo programmers"
Can i download such a program to see how good they are ?
I dont want to hear anything about coding and IDE and development.
I am a user and want to start a example program.
Do you have a LINK for me to download ?
Hans
This sounds strange.
However , i have here a huge range of books about smalltalk 80.
All the books describe the syntax and system.
To write a better and better code and more functions.
The only thing that is not describes is to display a running program inside image.
The keywords and methods to display and save the own code inside the packages in the
form of "image out" a manipulated smalltalk image to run as a user program.
The first step is a really really simple program like mathematic calculation etc.
But the procedure of end product must be clear.
Only one good example perhaps with a transcript display can overcome theese difficulties.
Its all unclear :
show Transcript
openInWorld
class new class
Theese commands are messages to a object.
But the user does not input any program code. This is automatic running.
Anyway , if the Pharo.exe started the image in the program. How , and with what keyword is then the program started fullscreen - which World is invoked to display?
This preparation point is unclear when i want to make my "Allready written program" ready to start.
However , i make a break with smalltalk now.
A few books are still ordered from USA.
If this point is unclear i cannot learn further at this point.
It makes no sense to write Packages and classes if i cannot invoke the running arrangements No matter if they are objects or others.
Hi Hans, I would not hesitate to state that in the Smalltalk vision, we should make no difference between a user and a programmer: a user has the right to be a programmer. Today, in academic circles, we call that "end-user programming" if you need more references (:)). If you take some of the best known examples of Pharo, you'll see that they are empowerment tools: they are designed to unleash a maximum amount of power by helping you reach complex goals a lot faster than usual. Look for Moose, Roassal, Seaside. Still, you can do sample, autonomous applications. For example, Phratch is at http://www.phratch.com/; DrGeo is at http://www.drgeo.eu/. You can start an application by opening it in a window (i.e. look for an open method). With a few more lines, you can open it fullscreen to hide the IDE (have to get back to work to give you those lines :)). With a bit more work, you can have it running from the command line. But remember, Pharo / Smalltalk is a live environment, not a compile and run my app kind of old stuff (and very old, given that Smalltalk itself is already old stuff). Have fun in your journey in Smalltalk :) Thierry Le 28/10/2014 13:36, Hans Schueren a écrit :
Thank you Thierry ,
guess i am an user.
" I have heared there are Pharo programmers"
Can i download such a program to see how good they are ?
I dont want to hear anything about coding and IDE and development.
I am a user and want to start a example program.
Do you have a LINK for me to download ?
Hans
This sounds strange.
However , i have here a huge range of books about smalltalk 80.
All the books describe the syntax and system.
To write a better and better code and more functions.
The only thing that is not describes is to display a running program inside image.
The keywords and methods to display and save the own code inside the packages in the
form of "image out" a manipulated smalltalk image to run as a user program.
The first step is a really really simple program like mathematic calculation etc.
But the procedure of end product must be clear.
Only one good example perhaps with a transcript display can overcome theese difficulties.
Its all unclear :
show Transcript
openInWorld
class new class
Theese commands are messages to a object.
But the user does not input any program code. This is automatic running.
Anyway , if the Pharo.exe started the image in the program. How , and with what keyword is then the program started fullscreen - which World is invoked to display?
This preparation point is unclear when i want to make my "Allready written program" ready to start.
However , i make a break with smalltalk now.
A few books are still ordered from USA.
If this point is unclear i cannot learn further at this point.
It makes no sense to write Packages and classes if i cannot invoke the running arrangements No matter if they are objects or others.
To understand better the Pharo "philosophy", I would advocate Pharo by example, which helped me a lot to understand how I can display objects in the transcript with Transcript show: (8*7) or to know more of the object with (8*7) inspect (actually I know this not from the book because Hilaire tought me this, but afterwards I found it inside the book and there I learned much much more) Alain On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 12:07 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Hans,
I would not hesitate to state that in the Smalltalk vision, we should make no difference between a user and a programmer: a user has the right to be a programmer.
Today, in academic circles, we call that "end-user programming" if you need more references (:)).
If you take some of the best known examples of Pharo, you'll see that they are empowerment tools: they are designed to unleash a maximum amount of power by helping you reach complex goals a lot faster than usual. Look for Moose, Roassal, Seaside.
Still, you can do sample, autonomous applications. For example, Phratch is at http://www.phratch.com/; DrGeo is at http://www.drgeo.eu/.
You can start an application by opening it in a window (i.e. look for an open method). With a few more lines, you can open it fullscreen to hide the IDE (have to get back to work to give you those lines :)). With a bit more work, you can have it running from the command line.
But remember, Pharo / Smalltalk is a live environment, not a compile and run my app kind of old stuff (and very old, given that Smalltalk itself is already old stuff).
Have fun in your journey in Smalltalk :)
Thierry
Le 28/10/2014 13:36, Hans Schueren a écrit :
Thank you Thierry ,
guess i am an user.
" I have heared there are Pharo programmers"
Can i download such a program to see how good they are ?
I dont want to hear anything about coding and IDE and development.
I am a user and want to start a example program.
Do you have a LINK for me to download ?
Hans
This sounds strange.
However , i have here a huge range of books about smalltalk 80.
All the books describe the syntax and system.
To write a better and better code and more functions.
The only thing that is not describes is to display a running program inside image.
The keywords and methods to display and save the own code inside the packages in the
form of "image out" a manipulated smalltalk image to run as a user program.
The first step is a really really simple program like mathematic calculation etc.
But the procedure of end product must be clear.
Only one good example perhaps with a transcript display can overcome theese difficulties.
Its all unclear :
show Transcript
openInWorld
class new class
Theese commands are messages to a object.
But the user does not input any program code. This is automatic running.
Anyway , if the Pharo.exe started the image in the program. How , and with what keyword is then the program started fullscreen - which World is invoked to display?
This preparation point is unclear when i want to make my "Allready written program" ready to start.
However , i make a break with smalltalk now.
A few books are still ordered from USA.
If this point is unclear i cannot learn further at this point.
It makes no sense to write Packages and classes if i cannot invoke the running arrangements No matter if they are objects or others.
participants (5)
-
Alain Busser -
Hans Schueren -
kilon alios -
S Krish -
Thierry Goubier