How to try out XTreams
Hi guys - I've been meaning to learn how to use XTreams and so I wanted to have a play in Pharo - however I am confused about how best to load it? I want to stick to a stable image - so I downloaded the 1.4 summer edition from the website, and then the XTreams project page seemed to point me to Squeak source and the install instructions seem quite old? As in there are Gofer instructions which I'm not convinced load the most up to date code. If I try and load a later mcz file it starts complaining about unsatisfied pre-requisites? I thought all this loading stuff was now sorted with metacello - but I don't see any references to this anywhere? Actually in typing this - it occurs to me that there was a welcome screen somewhere in Pharo that described how to load stuff so I've just gone and checked and found the MetacelloConfigurationBrowser - and now noticed there is an untrusted entry for XTreams. Is this how I'm suppposed to load it? If it is - is there any way of getting the Squeak source instructions updated, or even better the XTreams project page to give better directions (as this would have saved me time). Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/How-to-try-out-XTreams-tp4657923.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
hi tim, On 2012-12-03, at 20:07, Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys - I've been meaning to learn how to use XTreams and so I wanted to have a play in Pharo - however I am confused about how best to load it?
I want to stick to a stable image - so I downloaded the 1.4 summer edition from the website, and then the XTreams project page seemed to point me to Squeak source and the install instructions seem quite old? As in there are Gofer instructions which I'm not convinced load the most up to date code. If I try and load a later mcz file it starts complaining about unsatisfied pre-requisites?
Yes, XTreams has not been fully maintained over the last year(s?). Check the instructions below for installing. Keep in mind that the squeak/pharo port is not fully up to date. There are quite some changes done to the original xtreams which were not yet back-ported.
I thought all this loading stuff was now sorted with metacello - but I don't see any references to this anywhere? Actually in typing this - it occurs to me that there was a welcome screen somewhere in Pharo that described how to load stuff so I've just gone and checked and found the MetacelloConfigurationBrowser - and now noticed there is an untrusted entry for XTreams. Is this how I'm suppposed to load it?
Right-click => Load Configuration then you can try to install the latest version from there ConfigurationOfXtreams loadDevelopment This is standard metacello knowledge, you will find more details in the PharoByExample Metacello Chapter: http://pharobooks.gforge.inria.fr/PharoByExampleTwo-Eng/latest/Metacello.pdf
If it is - is there any way of getting the Squeak source instructions updated, or even better the XTreams project page to give better directions (as this would have saved me time).
The configuration part is pretty standard, however the configuration should be in the xtreams repository as well. So generally there are always two locations to check where the configurations are - in the repository under a package ConfigurationOfXXX - in the MetacelloRepositor which is accessible with the configuration browser I hope that clarified things a bit.
Thanks for the confirmation. Did I read somewhere that XTreams would be included in Pharo2.0? When you say not fully up to date, it seems like the configuration references changes from Mar 2012 - so I guess thats not too old - although it seems hard to tell as the Pharo configuration doesn't really tell you this info (I think you can infer it by looking at the timestamp of the oldest version method), and the XTreams project website doesn't have any history detail and the Cincom store looks like you have to load VW to check this. So we don't do ourselves many favours to communicate version history which is a bit of a shame. Anyway - I can still practice using what is there I guess. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/How-to-try-out-XTreams-tp4657923p4658076.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 2012-12-04, at 20:56, Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the confirmation.
Did I read somewhere that XTreams would be included in Pharo2.0?
When you say not fully up to date, it seems like the configuration references changes from Mar 2012 - so I guess thats not too old - although it seems hard to tell as the Pharo configuration doesn't really tell you this info (I think you can infer it by looking at the timestamp of the oldest version method),
Metacello has many features hidden ;) ConfigurationOfCI project lastVersion inspect but yes, it could be improved. Actually there is a tool called Versionner that helps you with all these tasks (you can install it from the metacello repository tool).
and the XTreams project website doesn't have any history detail and the Cincom store looks like you have to load VW to check this.
yes for that you need VW, but I think you get a free copy as a student or for evaluation.
So we don't do ourselves many favours to communicate version history which is a bit of a shame.
Anyway - I can still practice using what is there I guess.
sure, as I said before, I think the main problem is that VW updated their versions a bit.
Thanks for the confirmation.
Did I read somewhere that XTreams would be included in Pharo2.0?
May be Now just loading them and not improving the system to be able to throw away the old streams is not satisfactory and we do not have the manpower for it.
When you say not fully up to date, it seems like the configuration references changes from Mar 2012 - so I guess thats not too old - although it seems hard to tell as the Pharo configuration doesn't really tell you this info (I think you can infer it by looking at the timestamp of the oldest version method), and the XTreams project website doesn't have any history detail and the Cincom store looks like you have to load VW to check this.
So we don't do ourselves many favours to communicate version history which is a bit of a shame.
Anyway - I can still practice using what is there I guess.
Let us know if you succeed. Stef
On 2012-12-05, at 15:03, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Thanks for the confirmation.
Did I read somewhere that XTreams would be included in Pharo2.0?
May be Now just loading them and not improving the system to be able to throw away the old streams is not satisfactory and we do not have the manpower for it.
I think it is the same story as with the FileSystem... They will have to exist for some time in parallel, which will work fine since they don't share the same protocols. Then we have to do a major move towards a small legacy layer, again like in FS, and then start to rewrite things step by step to the new Xtreams. The current streams are so horribly broken that I think there is little to no chance to fix it from within. Maybe wrappers like Sven did will temporarily work around the issues, but they are poor solution compared to Xtreams. I remember Sean loaded and made Xtreams work in 2.0 and the couple of test failing were related to the FS changes from 14 to 20. And yes we might sweat some blood until the thing will properly run, but it will be worthwhile. Remember how much cleaner we are with the new FS. And I think the streams are even worse than the old FileDirectory was :)
Thanks for the confirmation.
Did I read somewhere that XTreams would be included in Pharo2.0?
May be Now just loading them and not improving the system to be able to throw away the old streams is not satisfactory and we do not have the manpower for it.
I think it is the same story as with the FileSystem... They will have to exist for some time in parallel, which will work fine since they don't share the same protocols.
Then we have to do a major move towards a small legacy layer, again like in FS, and then start to rewrite things step by step to the new Xtreams.
yes
The current streams are so horribly broken that I think there is little to no chance to fix it from within. Maybe wrappers like Sven did will temporarily work around the issues, but they are poor solution compared to Xtreams.
I agree
I remember Sean loaded and made Xtreams work in 2.0 and the couple of test failing were related to the FS changes from 14 to 20.
And yes we might sweat some blood until the thing will properly run, but it will be worthwhile. Remember how much cleaner we are with the new FS. And I think the streams are even worse than the old FileDirectory was :)
Yes I totally agree. But I want to do it well :) Stef
Camillo Bruni-3 wrote
I remember Sean loaded and made Xtreams work in 2.0
Yes, at ESUG, we monkey patched FileTree/Cypress to convert between VW namespaces and Squeak/Pharo class name prefixes. We were able to load the latest version of XTreams from VW to Pharo and back. The only thing left to do was refactor. Not sure where the code was... I may have it on my laptop... or maybe Dale remembers... Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/How-to-try-out-XTreams-tp4657923p4660191.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 2012-12-19, at 22:37, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
Camillo Bruni-3 wrote
I remember Sean loaded and made Xtreams work in 2.0
Yes, at ESUG, we monkey patched FileTree/Cypress to convert between VW namespaces and Squeak/Pharo class name prefixes. We were able to load the latest version of XTreams from VW to Pharo and back. The only thing left to do was refactor. Not sure where the code was... I may have it on my laptop... or maybe Dale remembers...
I would love to tackle that in early 3.0 :)
Camillo Bruni-3 wrote
I would love to tackle that in early 3.0 :)
Let me know when you're ready and I'll dig up the code... -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/How-to-try-out-XTreams-tp4657923p4660883.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (4)
-
Camillo Bruni -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Tim Mackinnon