Hi Stephan, Hi All, Joachim and I come from the same, commercial world, and we are not used to initial problems regarding the UI we are used to huge limitations once your models become more and more complex and custom vizualisations are desired. On first sight the videos and examples are tempting and give a beginner the feeling that everythign is possible in Pharo/Squeak. Well it definitely is and I myself are also more the "do it your self" guy. But there are simple tasks that should not need a huge involvement to accomplish a visualization and manipulation of a model. I think there is most stuff out there in Pharo that is needed to built a nice UI with Model interaction. It took me jsut a few hours to built a nice Glamour based data model browser. So why do I struggle to built a login view?! I think this is because Glamour is its own example.... It is implemented in one way and there are few distractions. GTSpotter is already too difficult to understand again.... What Pharo needs and I do not think that this is a too huge task is. A clear destiction of M, V and C accomplished by ClassNamingConvertions and package sub-division of these. A browser that just lists all the available basic morphs and their examples A sushi store demo according to the current Pharo release. A clear documentation what, Spec, Polymorph, Morphic,... are representing and on which "layer" they are positioned. OS-Layer, Common-Layer, Layout-Layer, Event-Layer. Based on first steps experiance with Seaside I can still remember that the only reason why I was able to get started fast and even during the early days of Seaside were the two examples, Scriptacoulous demo site and the Sushi Store. With the help of those I even learnt some CSS and JS ... The jQuery example was already to much limited to the usage of jQuery and it was much more difficult to use the exampel site as an example to go on with an own project. How much time would it cost to implement a small sushi store with in image persitsancy? Also,.... a documentation on how to deplay this store and make a real Pharo app. I think such a demo would also show the community how huge a impact a new Pharo release does to a commercial product. A steady update from release to release would be useful as a pharo version migration guide. It could also start a discussion on how to do things and show each of us where things are unclear and under specified. We should take what we have and put an example together instead of thinking/discussing what kind of framework might be best or better. There are so many books an Smalltalk patterns, MVC,.... but there are actually no real official examples available Stephan! Thank you so much for starting this! I will have a look asap. Right now I am more focused on the local Software group. I would like to have some application "WITH UI" and even 3D where I can show off live programming! I admire the energy the community and the board puts into Pharo and I can only imagine how difficult it must be to find and lead into a certain direction. Thank you! So and now her eis the question that I think needs to be discussed since it is the most controversial answered to me. "Spec or not to Spec?" I am kidding! But my current counter is 5 for Spec and 5 against Spec. I think some rason could be that Spec is misunderstood, or still under development/inmature. I can't tell, but a beginner wants to know: "WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!?" Thanks for reading! Sebastian Am 12.02.2015 um 07:22 schrieb Stephan Eggermont:

Sebastian wrote:

...

After 5 days I can tell ,that I am lost in Morphic, UIManager, Traits/No-Traits, Spec, GLMMorphic, Poly.... And sometimes things are even mixed up and I am not able to decide which approach to follow,... If your goal is a "Maya Editor"-like UI, I've put together something that could be useful as a starting point. I would be interested in how to encapsulate this in Spec, and in what should change in Bloc. The idea is to grow it into a tutorial.

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephanEggermont/MorphicDraw

Stephan