Re: [Pharo-users] Pier3 with latest Pillar?
Hi peter I do not know but I would love that it would work. I should find some time to do a new pass on pillar. On my first todo: - fix use of DNU instead of plain magritte methods. - extract object out of the command line. - document, document and document. Stef Le 10/11/16 à 22:34, Peter H. Meadows via Pharo-users a écrit :
+1 from me, and would love to help where I can. It would be nice to see Pillar return to being a cross platform project as well. One of the beautiful things about Seaside/Magritte/Pier was itâs compatibility across many dialects of Smalltalk. The âdevelop in Pharo and deploy in GemStoneâ was a big draw for me :) One of my clients uses VW so it was great to have these projects there as well. Pillar was refactored to use Traits and save duplication of (from memory) about 3 methods, but in doing so it became a Pharo-only project. I asked about this and found there wasnât an interest in maintaining cross platform compatibility, so I saved a copy on git hub [1] and added a PRPillarGemstoneCodeTool class with a simple method for flattening the traits. My hope was being able to maintain a cross platform version of Pillar and keep Pier updated in a manageable way. Frustratingly, my work only allows me the occasional sprints in Smalltalk and without a Pier project to work on, I havenât had the resources to keep it updated. Iâd like to see Pier get some love - itâs an awesome tool. How can I help? [1] https://github.com/JupiterSmalltalk/Pillar <https://github.com/JupiterSmalltalk/Pillar>
On 12 Nov 2016, at 12:16 am, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
Hi peter
I do not know but I would love that it would work. I should find some time to do a new pass on pillar.
On my first todo:
- fix use of DNU instead of plain magritte methods.
- extract object out of the command line.
- document, document and document.
Stef
Le 10/11/16 à 22:34, Peter H. Meadows via Pharo-users a écrit :
Le 11/11/16 à 22:35, Jupiter Jones a écrit :
+1 from me, and would love to help where I can.
It would be nice to see Pillar return to being a cross platform project as well. One of the beautiful things about Seaside/Magritte/Pier was itâs compatibility across many dialects of Smalltalk. The âdevelop in Pharo and deploy in GemStoneâ was a big draw for me :) One of my clients uses VW so it was great to have these projects there as well. Yes but at the end of the day. You see we cannot work for free and in addition got constraints that are dragging us behind. Pillar was refactored to use Traits and save duplication of (from memory) about 3 methods, but in doing so it became a Pharo-only project. I asked about this and found there wasnât an interest in maintaining cross platform compatibility, so I saved a copy on git hub [1] and added a PRPillarGemstoneCodeTool class with a simple method for flattening the traits. My hope was being able to maintain a cross platform version of Pillar and keep Pier updated in a manageable way. I will see if the trait usage make sense and can be removed. But you see if everything we do has to be compatible better be dead. I would prefer to see GS having an infrastructure to load Pharo kernels. We are pushing the bootstrap for this reasons. Because you see Pharo will use more and more slots because they are really really cool and powerful.
What do you do with Pillar? Because I write books, slides, and websites so this is an important piece of software for me.
Frustratingly, my work only allows me the occasional sprints in Smalltalk and without a Pier project to work on, I havenât had the resources to keep it updated.
Iâd like to see Pier get some love - itâs an awesome tool. How can I help?
[1] https://github.com/JupiterSmalltalk/Pillar Join and hack.
On 12 Nov 2016, at 12:16 am, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
Hi peter
I do not know but I would love that it would work. I should find some time to do a new pass on pillar.
On my first todo:
- fix use of DNU instead of plain magritte methods.
- extract object out of the command line.
- document, document and document.
Stef
Le 10/11/16 à 22:34, Peter H. Meadows via Pharo-users a écrit :
Hey Stephane,
It would be nice to see Pillar return to being a cross platform project as well. One of the beautiful things about Seaside/Magritte/Pier was itâs compatibility across many dialects of Smalltalk. The âdevelop in Pharo and deploy in GemStoneâ was a big draw for me :) One of my clients uses VW so it was great to have these projects there as well. Yes but at the end of the day. You see we cannot work for free and in addition got constraints that are dragging us behind.
Absolutely! Luckily the hard work of cross-compatability has already been done for Pier. Iâm just hoping we can keep the parts of Pillar on which Pier is reliant working across dialects - Pharo and GemStone at least. From memory, the only thing that made it hard was PRTParametrizable. I imagine very few of us are being paid for the contributions we make. In my case, itâs only when I have a paid project that allows me to work in Smalltalk, that I can invest some of that paid time in contributing towards the packages Iâm using for that project. I also feel my smalltalk-ability isnât up to the standard of so many of the amazing people contributing, which makes me a little reticent to get involved in the more complex projects.
I will see if the trait usage make sense and can be removed. But you see if everything we do has to be compatible better be dead.
Maybe not a matter of code or die, but certainly a matter of style and most likely a commitment to more pain. it is (sometimes much) harder working with community projects since it takes working with that community - and everyone has their own use case, and at least three opinions. :) Iâve experienced this many time in non-software projects. It may take a little longer to get there, but itâs definitely worth the extra pain it in the end.
I would prefer to see GS having an infrastructure to load Pharo kernels. We are pushing the bootstrap for this reasons.
Dale and the GemStone team are doing a great job moving towards that ideal. Their constraints are even greater since they have a large commercial install base supporting many platforms. We should be able to be more flexible and dynamic
Because you see Pharo will use more and more slots because they are really really cool and powerful. What do you do with Pillar? Because I write books, slides, and websites so this is an important piece of software for me.
For me, Pillar was a package in Pier, and Pier was a tool that I used for all my presentations, prototyping, and small or short-lived community and not-for-profit projects.
Iâd like to see Pier get some love - itâs an awesome tool. How can I help? Join and hack.
Iâd love to! I noticed that the issue tracker and other Pillar related stuff is now on GitHub which is awesome. Is there any chance that the Smalltalk project could also move there? It would make it easier to fork and hack and make versions available to test before deciding what might be valuable pushed back to the core project. Thanks for all your excellent work with Pillar - not to mention everything else! Have fun! Jupiter
Hey. Can someone check this for me? In Pharo5 do: Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'Pier' project: 'Pillar'; configuration; loadDevelopment. Gofer new url:'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/phm/PierLoadExperiment/main'; package: 'ConfigurationOfPierLoadExperiment'; load. ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPierLoadExperiment) project version: #stable) load. Gofer new url:'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/phm/PierLoadExperimentChanges/main'; package: 'ConfigurationOfPierLoadExperimentChanges'; load. ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPierLoadExperimentChanges) project version: #stable) load. ZnZincServerAdaptor startOn: 8080. PRPierFrame registerAsApplication: 'pier' kernel: (PRKernel instanceNamed: 'pier'). (WAAdmin defaultDispatcher handlerAt: 'pier' ) exceptionHandler: WADebugErrorHandler . Then visit http://localhost:8080/pier Does it work? Is it loading the right things? (I didn't check the tests yet, and i don't really understand metacello or Pier, just playing by trial and error :), but if it works, maybe someone with more experience can turn it into a config that will load from catalog in Pharo6. Thx. On 11 November 2016 at 13:16, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
Hi peter
I do not know but I would love that it would work. I should find some time to do a new pass on pillar.
On my first todo:
- fix use of DNU instead of plain magritte methods.
- extract object out of the command line.
- document, document and document.
Stef
Le 10/11/16 à 22:34, Peter H. Meadows via Pharo-users a écrit :
On 15 November 2016 at 07:30, Peter H. Meadows <peter.h.meadows@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hey. Can someone check this for me? In Pharo5 do:
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'Pier' project: 'Pillar'; configuration; loadDevelopment.
Gofer new url:'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/phm/PierLoadExperiment/main'; package: 'ConfigurationOfPierLoadExperiment'; load. ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPierLoadExperiment) project version: #stable) load.
Gofer new url:'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/phm/PierLoadExperimentChanges/main'; package: 'ConfigurationOfPierLoadExperimentChanges'; load. ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPierLoadExperimentChanges) project version: #stable) load.
ZnZincServerAdaptor startOn: 8080.
PRPierFrame registerAsApplication: 'pier' kernel: (PRKernel instanceNamed: 'pier').
(WAAdmin defaultDispatcher handlerAt: 'pier' ) exceptionHandler: WADebugErrorHandler .
Then visit http://localhost:8080/pier Does it work? Is it loading the right things? (I didn't check the tests yet, and i don't really understand metacello or Pier, just playing by trial and error :), but if it works, maybe someone with more experience can turn it into a config that will load from catalog in Pharo6. Thx.
Anyone check this? If it's correct, how do I get the changes into Pier?
On 11 November 2016 at 13:16, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
Hi peter
I do not know but I would love that it would work. I should find some time to do a new pass on pillar.
On my first todo:
- fix use of DNU instead of plain magritte methods.
- extract object out of the command line.
- document, document and document.
Stef
Le 10/11/16 à 22:34, Peter H. Meadows via Pharo-users a écrit :
participants (3)
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Jupiter Jones -
Peter H. Meadows -
stepharo