Honest question, new to ecosystem: are Glorp and Garage alive?
Hello! Without wanting to offend anyone, I'd like to know, as I do not follow the tides yet, what is the state of Glorp and Garage re maintained / having bright future vs. stalled? I know about Voyage but I chose not to use it as it seems a bit "savage" to me with automatically applying to all instances of a class. Did I backed the right horse by using Glorp (and wanting to use Garage drivers)? Thanks, Herby
Hi Holger, Garage is not maintained as people started developing the alternative UDBC drivers, that share the same spirit at the end. I do not know if they share the same API though. About Glorp, I will let Esteban Maringolo ask :). On the other side, you should check again how you downloaded Garage and GarageGlorp because I still believe you're not using the latest versions. The last thing I did on that was to update it to pharo 6 and UFFI, so it is working. Moreover, I moved garage's code base to github to use travis (because inria CI was very unstable). https://github.com/guillep/garage/blob/master/.travis.yml And travis reports that last build on pharo 6 was green (at the time I set that up, travis had no cron jobs, so it was the last commit). https://travis-ci.org/guillep/garage So, Garage works on pharo 6 using UFFI, but I cannot maintain it mainly because I don't use relational databases on my daily work. Thus, this is complicated to maintain 4 backends for 3 platforms, on 2 pharo versions, if you don't eat your own food. Now, documentation may be outdated :) On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Herby VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote:
Hello!
Without wanting to offend anyone, I'd like to know, as I do not follow the tides yet, what is the state of Glorp and Garage re maintained / having bright future vs. stalled?
I know about Voyage but I chose not to use it as it seems a bit "savage" to me with automatically applying to all instances of a class. Did I backed the right horse by using Glorp (and wanting to use Garage drivers)?
Thanks, Herby
-- Guille Polito Research Engineer French National Center for Scientific Research - *http://www.cnrs.fr* <http://www.cnrs.fr> *Web:* *http://guillep.github.io* <http://guillep.github.io> *Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13
Guillermo Polito wrote:
Hi Holger,
??? :-)
Garage is not maintained as people started developing the alternative UDBC drivers, that share the same spirit at the end. I do not know if they share the same API though.
I did not know. So I should use ConfigurationOfGlorpSQLite instead of ConfigurationOfGarageGlorp as my dependency?
About Glorp, I will let Esteban Maringolo ask :).
It seems from other responses that Glorp is fine. :-)
On the other side, you should check again how you downloaded Garage and GarageGlorp because I still believe you're not using the latest versions. The last thing I did on that was to update it to pharo 6 and UFFI, so it is working. Moreover, I moved garage's code base to github to use travis (because inria CI was very unstable).
I loaded what is in Pharo6 catalog. That is, GarageGlorp, which I load from Pharo6 meta repo. It then loads Garage and Glorp. Last commit in Garage-SQLite loaded via that (offical, I hope) configuration is Name: Garage-Sqlite3-GuillermoPolito.26 Author: GuillermoPolito Time: 3 May 2016, 11:24:28.35761 am UUID: 55bd20d2-c691-4065-94cc-8bf76e775410 Ancestors: Garage-Sqlite3-GuillermoPolito.25 Making it work for all platforms which is pre-pharo6 as far as I can say (and code actually looks like so).
https://github.com/guillep/garage/blob/master/.travis.yml
And travis reports that last build on pharo 6 was green (at the time I set that up, travis had no cron jobs, so it was the last commit).
This indeed contains much more commit beyond May 2016. Maybe the ConfigurationOfGarage / Pharo6 catalog needs updating?
So, Garage works on pharo 6 using UFFI, but I cannot maintain it mainly because I don't use relational databases on my daily work. Thus, this is complicated to maintain 4 backends for 3 platforms, on 2 pharo versions, if you don't eat your own food.
Now, documentation may be outdated :)
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Herby VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk <mailto:herby@mailbox.sk>> wrote:
Hello!
Without wanting to offend anyone, I'd like to know, as I do not follow the tides yet, what is the state of Glorp and Garage re maintained / having bright future vs. stalled?
I know about Voyage but I chose not to use it as it seems a bit "savage" to me with automatically applying to all instances of a class. Did I backed the right horse by using Glorp (and wanting to use Garage drivers)?
Thanks, Herby
--
Guille Polito
Research Engineer
French National Center for Scientific Research - _http://www.cnrs.fr_
*Web:* _http://guillep.github.io_
*Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13
Thanks, Herby
2017-08-14 9:07 GMT-03:00 Herby VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk>:
Garage is not maintained as people started developing the alternative UDBC drivers, that share the same spirit at the end. I do not know if they share the same API though.
I did not know. So I should use ConfigurationOfGlorpSQLite instead of ConfigurationOfGarageGlorp as my dependency?
In the Glorp booklet these are the instructions to install SQLite: Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'TorstenBergmann' project: 'UDBC'; configuration; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfUDBC) loadBleedingEdge. Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'DBXTalk' project: 'Garage'; configurationOf: 'GarageGlorp'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGarageGlorp) project stableVersion load. Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'DBXTalk' project: 'Glorp'; package: 'Glorp-SQLite3'; load.
About Glorp, I will let Esteban Maringolo ask :). It seems from other responses that Glorp is fine. :-)
Glorp was updated in Pharo last year from the latest version in Cincom Public Repository, although a year might seem like a lot, it isn't much because Glorp is mostly in "maintenance", and the ORM domain isn't a moving target anymore. What we're still lacking is better database drivers, not for Glorp which supports many, but in terms of low level connectivity. I really liked the idea of an unified driver layer the way UDBC was taking, unfortunately this was put to a halt. Maybe we should focus on having good reliable native drivers instead of trying to support all and end up having incomplete support for only a few. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo ps: I'm currently not doing any RDBMS on Pharo, and that's why I'm not "updating" Glorp with minor/usability changes, but I'm using Glorp with SQLite in VW, so in the future I might update Pharo's port if there are changes. However those update must be manual, since Glorp isn't coordinated to be portable as Seaside or other projects are.
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 10:01:22AM -0300, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:
In the Glorp booklet these are the instructions to install SQLite:
Hi Esteban, ConfigurationOfGlorpSQLite incorporates the manual steps that I used originally. GlorpSQLite is also in Catalog Browser in Pharo 5.0 and 6.x. Pierce
Herby, I cannot say anaything good or bad about Garage, since I am not using Pharo regularly. Glorp is maintained by CIncom employees and Cincom uses Glorp for their source control management, so at least from a bug fixing perspective, Glorp is in good shape. It does lack features like multiple inheritance levels spread over tables, and it seems nobody is implementing that. So I would probably be careful about the brightness level of Glorp's future when it comes to new features. Not sure if and how the Pharo crowd is involved and whether Cincom is looking for help with Glorp. I know that Niall is very helpful and helps as good as he can (and he can) if time permits. I have been using Glorp on a commercial web project for years now and happy with it. But I am using it on another Smalltalk dialect. Glorp has been in a very poor shape on Pharo for a while, but about a year or two ago, it has re-gained traction. So if you want to use an O/R mapper in Smalltalk, I don't think there is anything maintained better than Glorp. It's as good as you can get in the Smalltalk world. Most alternatives are far less finished and look quite abandoned to me. So it seems like you need to swallow and make the best out of it ;-) Maybe somebody more deeply involved with Pharo has another (better?) option in their sleeves...? IIRC, Sven, who usually writes great code and maintains it very well, came up with a Postgres driver and a Glorp layer for it just a few weeks ago. If Garage doesn't work for you, and if Postgres is an option for you, you should definitiely take a look at it: https://github.com/svenvc/P3 HTH Joachim Am 14.08.17 um 11:57 schrieb Herby VojÄÃk:
Hello!
Without wanting to offend anyone, I'd like to know, as I do not follow the tides yet, what is the state of Glorp and Garage re maintained / having bright future vs. stalled?
I know about Voyage but I chose not to use it as it seems a bit "savage" to me with automatically applying to all instances of a class. Did I backed the right horse by using Glorp (and wanting to use Garage drivers)?
Thanks, Herby
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1
Hi Herby, I've been using Glorp with UDBC/SQLite since early last year and it has been quite stable. Cheers, Alistair On 14 Aug. 2017 11:58, "Herby VojÄÃk" <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote: Hello! Without wanting to offend anyone, I'd like to know, as I do not follow the tides yet, what is the state of Glorp and Garage re maintained / having bright future vs. stalled? I know about Voyage but I chose not to use it as it seems a bit "savage" to me with automatically applying to all instances of a class. Did I backed the right horse by using Glorp (and wanting to use Garage drivers)? Thanks, Herby
participants (7)
-
Alistair Grant -
Esteban A. Maringolo -
Guillermo Polito -
Herby VojÄÃk -
jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de -
Pierce Ng -
Stephane Ducasse