Le 26/11/2014 21:51, Hilaire a écrit :

Le 26/11/2014 21:44, Thierry Goubier a écrit :

...

...

Do we have an installable browser for Pharo, simple but reliable as was Browser?

What is Browser? A system browser?

Yes, to browser code

Then Stéphane has a simple one, for minimal Pharo. I have one, AltBrowser, which is not so minimal (size-wise, it's a bit larger than the old system browser). It's installable (look for ConfigurationOfAltBrowser) and reliable enough for my coding in Pharo2, Pharo3 and Pharo4. I believe Doru could make a simple one out of GTPlayground in a short time. Sean showed some experiments a while back. Kilon is looking to see if he can build one. I believe he can :) Thierry

So, I would like to look at AltBrowser, but when I try to install it in a Pharo 4 image I get an exception “ZdcPluginMissing: SSL/TLS plugin initialization failed” Any ideas on where to find it? I’ve already tried installing Zodiac, Zinc-Zodiac and SqueakSSL and still no plugin. Craig From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of kilon alios Sent: 27 November 2014 12:28 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser "Kilon is looking to see if he can build one. I believe he can :)" I wont be building one from scratch , I like your AltBrowser too much to do that. You basically took the 4 panels of the System Browser and reduced them to 2 panels. My goal will be to reduce them to one panel .For that to happens I already forked your browser and I will adding small changes here and there. I am also interested how to make text code more visual, think of it like adding halos to code itself. I am very interested into visual coding. Other ideas I have is dynamic documentation inside the same panel and also the ability to tag methods and classes for easier browsing. So mine will be just an extension to yours. One step at a time and see where it takes me.

Hi Sven, My VM is Cog VM 4.0.0 (release) Craig -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 27 November 2014 10:06 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser You do not have to install anything extra inside the image, Zodiac is a standard part of Pharo. But, as the error says 'plugin missing', you do need to use a VM with the SSL plugin, like a normal Pharo VM. Which VM/platform are you using ?

That is not the Pharo VM. And you didn't tell me which platform you are on. If you are on Linux, you need libSqueakSSL next to your VM binary. $ ldd bin/libSqueakSSL.so linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) libssl.so.0.9.8 => /usr/lib32/i686/cmov/libssl.so.0.9.8 (0xf768e000) libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf753a000) libcrypto.so.0.9.8 => /usr/lib32/i686/cmov/libcrypto.so.0.9.8 (0xf73f7000) libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf73f3000) libz.so.1 => /usr/lib32/libz.so.1 (0xf73de000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf76e6000) Note that on a 64-bit system, you need 32-bit SSL libraries on your system.

On 27 Nov 2014, at 09:11, Craig <craig@hivemind.net> wrote:

Hi Sven,

My VM is Cog VM 4.0.0 (release)

Craig

-----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 27 November 2014 10:06 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

You do not have to install anything extra inside the image, Zodiac is a standard part of Pharo.

But, as the error says 'plugin missing', you do need to use a VM with the SSL plugin, like a normal Pharo VM.

Which VM/platform are you using ?

Hi Craig, tell me how it goes for you. Things you like in it, things you don't. If you need a bit of a Thierry 2014-11-27 9:31 GMT+01:00 Craig <craig@hivemind.net>:

Thanks Sven,

Never mind. I just installed the September 25 VM and AltBrowser now works just fine :)

Craig

-----Original Message----- From: Craig [mailto:craig@hivemind.net] Sent: 27 November 2014 10:11 AM To: 'Any question about pharo is welcome' Subject: RE: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

Hi Sven,

My VM is Cog VM 4.0.0 (release)

Craig

-----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 27 November 2014 10:06 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Alternate browser

You do not have to install anything extra inside the image, Zodiac is a standard part of Pharo.

But, as the error says 'plugin missing', you do need to use a VM with the SSL plugin, like a normal Pharo VM.

Which VM/platform are you using ?

Le 26/11/2014 22:18, Thierry Goubier a écrit :

Then Stéphane has a simple one, for minimal Pharo.

I have one, AltBrowser, which is not so minimal (size-wise, it's a bit larger than the old system browser). It's installable (look for ConfigurationOfAltBrowser) and reliable enough for my coding in Pharo2, Pharo3 and Pharo4.

I will try thanks Hilaire -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

I'm cleaning up a lot of small issues I had with it as I write (mostly refreshing/deselection issues when redefining/renaming classes).

I'm done with the pharo3.0 branch on github; I'm now merging those into the pharo4.0 branch with git (i.e. merging with git on the command line without Monticello merge).

Just tell how it goes for you; even if this is not the browser you like, your feedback will tell us where we can improve.

Thierry A few comments on my side. Running AltBrowser Stable in Pharo 4 under Windows. * In the code pane - the short-cut key - Meta-S for Save - resets the dirty code indicator, but does not actually save the code, using the context menu does. * Trying to open the Window Menu causes a warning - "MenuMorph>>add:target:action: is depreciated" Craig

Hi Craig, both issues are/should be solved now, on both Pharo3 and Pharo4. Thierry Le 03/12/2014 09:24, Craig Johnson a écrit :

...

I'm cleaning up a lot of small issues I had with it as I write (mostly refreshing/deselection issues when redefining/renaming classes).

I'm done with the pharo3.0 branch on github; I'm now merging those into the pharo4.0 branch with git (i.e. merging with git on the command line without Monticello merge).

Just tell how it goes for you; even if this is not the browser you like, your feedback will tell us where we can improve.

Thierry

A few comments on my side. Running AltBrowser Stable in Pharo 4 under Windows. * In the code pane - the short-cut key - Meta-S for Save - resets the dirty code indicator, but does not actually save the code, using the context menu does. * Trying to open the Window Menu causes a warning - "MenuMorph>>add:target:action: is depreciated"

Craig

Le 27/11/2014 08:03, stepharo a écrit :

Le 26/11/14 21:30, Hilaire a écrit :

...

Hello,

Do we have an installable browser for Pharo, simple but reliable as was Browser? What is the problem that you have with the current one?

It is unstable with me. It is really feature complete, it is nice, but I may use wrongly. May be with a simpler one I will do less mistake. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

Le 28/11/2014 08:07, Marcus Denker a écrit :

...

It is unstable with me. It is really feature complete, it is nice, but I

...

may use wrongly. May be with a simpler one I will do less mistake.

If nobody reports and fixes problems, they will stay forever.

Reported, they are. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/?fClosedBugs=true&ixPersonOpenedBy=194&s... Le 29/11/2014 08:53, stepharo a écrit :

where?

Le 28/11/14 21:30, Hilaire a écrit :

...

Le 28/11/2014 08:07, Marcus Denker a écrit :

...

...

It is unstable with me. It is really feature complete, it is nice, but I

...

may use wrongly. May be with a simpler one I will do less mistake.

If nobody reports and fixes problems, they will stay forever. Reported, they are.

Hilaire

-- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

I have been using AltBrowser for a test. Some feedback - I like to see doc with my code so having to click back and forth is annoying and not conductive to writing class comments. - I got a couple freezes - I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to use both. Phil Le 29 nov. 2014 10:40, "Thierry Goubier" <thierry.goubier@gmail.com> a écrit :

Le 29/11/2014 10:06, Hilaire a écrit :

...

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/?fClosedBugs=true& ixPersonOpenedBy=194&sColumns=Category-Favorite-Case- TitleComment-Status-Priority-LastUpdated&sSearchFor= nautilus&sView=grid-flat

Is that just me or is your filter/link not working?

Don't hesitate to voice your feelings even if they don't fit within bug reports. The fact you're writing this is a kind of report ;)

Making powerfull things simple is complex

Thierry

Le 29/11/2014 08:53, stepharo a écrit :

...

...

where?

Le 28/11/14 21:30, Hilaire a écrit :

...

Le 28/11/2014 08:07, Marcus Denker a écrit :

...

It is unstable with me. It is really feature complete, it is nice,

...

but I

...

may use wrongly. May be with a simpler one I will do less mistake.

If nobody reports and fixes problems, they will stay forever.

Reported, they are.

Hilaire

Le 29/11/2014 11:39, kilon alios a écrit :

"- I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to use both."

thats an annoyance for me too, I would like to be given the option to choose what browser I want to use depending on the situation.

Doing that is just triggering a nice bug in Pharo 3. There is apparently no real API for unregistering a tool...

Also your comment on the comments is a valid one, I think we need a more dynamic browser in general which currently Pharo lacks, that does not try to choose for us how to do coding and instead gives us the choices . Of course dynamic browsers are more effort.

A Moldable system browser? The old system browser is dynamic, in a way: class / hierarchy / full. Changes based on what was your focus. The message list as well, the finder UI as well. But... complex, not that convincing. Thierry

Hi, This is precisely the direction that the IDE of Pharo is taking. Take the inspector for example. It is a tiny piece of code that can be extended in many ways and in doing so, it can support various workflows. The same is actually available already for the debugger (GTDebugger) although this is not yet integrated. And more is coming. Eventually, we will also get to the code browser :). Doru On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:54 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

"A Moldable system browser?

The old system browser is dynamic, in a way: class / hierarchy / full. Changes based on what was your focus. The message list as well, the finder UI as well. But... complex, not that convincing."

yes exactly . Why bother making a system browser that can do tons of things when you can build a browser that is easy to customise gui wise and features wise ? Users will come and extend it far beyond that what a few developers can do.

Same as games really, you have something like Skyrim and then you have like tons of mods for it that some are even better than the game itself.

I think generally what Pharo lacks is an ADDONS API like Blender. An API that would make it easy for users to customise Pharo on the fly. Of course its really good that we have such direct and live access to the source code of Pharo but sometimes you dont want to learn a ton of stuff to change just a few bits.

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Thierry Goubier < thierry.goubier@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Le 29/11/2014 11:39, kilon alios a écrit :

...

"- I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to use both."

thats an annoyance for me too, I would like to be given the option to choose what browser I want to use depending on the situation.

Doing that is just triggering a nice bug in Pharo 3.

There is apparently no real API for unregistering a tool...

Also your comment on the comments is a valid one, I think we need a more

...

dynamic browser in general which currently Pharo lacks, that does not try to choose for us how to do coding and instead gives us the choices . Of course dynamic browsers are more effort.

A Moldable system browser?

The old system browser is dynamic, in a way: class / hierarchy / full. Changes based on what was your focus. The message list as well, the finder UI as well. But... complex, not that convincing.

Thierry

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Interesting that you are asking that question. This basically means that the whole philosophy of the GTInspector did not get communicated well. We have to work on this because I think GTInspector is the most significant step in object inspection since the introduction of the original inspector. So, here is the main page: http://gt.moosetechnology.org Here is the introduction: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/the-moldable-gtinspector-deconstructed... Some examples: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/browsing-files-with-gtinspector/ http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/browsing-files-with-gtinspector-video/ http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-morph-keybindings-with-gtinsp... http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/assessing-pharo-performance-with-gtins... http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/dynamic-exploration-of-a-postgres-db-w... How to manage the extensions: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions/ And a more thorough list: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahumane-assessment.com%20gtinspector Cheers, Doru On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 1:21 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

"Take the inspector for example. It is a tiny piece of code that can be extended in many ways and in doing so, it can support various workflows."

What is its API and where is documented ?

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Indeed, this is a terrible problem. I did not manage to find out what the problem is unfortunately. It seems to be some memory leak of pier or something like that. I refreshed the server and it works now. Sorry for the trouble. I will try to migrate my websites to a more stable technology :(. Cheers, Doru On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas < offray@riseup.net> wrote:

Sadly I got again:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Service Temporarily Unavailable

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. Apache/2.2.14 (Ubuntu) Server at www.humane-assessment.com Port 80 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

That is becoming kind of the default answer of Moose related sites. Agile Visualization is my first introduction for these technologies because its approach is wider and the web site is reliable, but there is a lot of knowledge put on blog post like the ones that Doru is sharing now that just became randomly accesible (some times the site is up, some times is down).

Access to moose sites ss a problem with months now. Hopefully this will be solved with a reliable hosting to spreed better this technology and its ideas.

Cheers,

Offray

El 01/12/14 a las #4, Tudor Girba escribió:

...

Interesting that you are asking that question. This basically means that the whole philosophy of the GTInspector did not get communicated well. We have to work on this because I think GTInspector is the most significant step in object inspection since the introduction of the original inspector.

So, here is the main page: http://gt.moosetechnology.org

Here is the introduction: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/the-moldable- gtinspector-deconstructed/

Some examples: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/browsing-files-with-gtinspector/ http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/browsing-files-with- gtinspector-video/ http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-morph- keybindings-with-gtinspector/ http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/assessing-pharo- performance-with-gtinspector/ http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/dynamic-exploration- of-a-postgres-db-with-the-gtinspector/

How to manage the extensions: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions/

And a more thorough list: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahumane-assessment. com%20gtinspector

Cheers, Doru

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 1:21 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote:

"Take the inspector for example. It is a tiny piece of code that can be extended in many ways and in doing so, it can support various workflows."

What is its API and where is documented ?

-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>

"Every thing has its own flow"

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Indeed. Can anyone help me with doing this? Doru On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:36 PM, Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu> wrote:

Le 01/12/2014 15:09, Tudor Girba a écrit :

...

Sorry for the trouble. I will try to migrate my websites to a more stable technology :(.

Not perfect, but you can set a cron to restart it daily.

Hilaire

-- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

"So, here is the main page:" thanks for links really impressive what you trying to do with GT tools, but I still cannot find documentation about the API of extending GT-Inspector following your link here http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions/ GTInspector class>>gtInspectorExtensionsIn: composite <gtInspectorPresentationOrder: 40> composite list title: 'Extensions'; display: [ (Object withAllSubclasses flatCollect: [ :each | (Pragma allNamed: #gtInspectorPresentationOrder: in: each) collect: [:p | p method asRingDefinition] ]) sorted ]; format: #gtDisplayString; filterOn: [ :text :each | each gtDisplayString includesSubstring: text caseSensitive: false ] for example I have tried this and works fine and well, but since does not tell me anything about the API , for example what composite is, or where title and display come to play and generally how I can use this customisability for my classes. Your other dont help on this issue either. I did not know that you can use GTInspector as a browser replacement. I am impressed :)

2014-12-01 16:10 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:

Use the Finder tool and search for all gtInspectorPresentationOrder pragma's:

These are the actual custom inspectors.

I think what this means is that the true API of GTInspector is the Glamour API. And, yes, as explained in Doru's blog, it looks very simple. In practice, you need a bit more than that (i.e. you have to know how to create Glamour presentations).

Use the source, Luke !

On 01 Dec 2014, at 16:00, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

"So, here is the main page:"

thanks for links really impressive what you trying to do with GT tools, but I still cannot find documentation about the API of extending GT-Inspector

following your link here http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions/ GTInspector class>>gtInspectorExtensionsIn: composite <gtInspectorPresentationOrder: 40> composite list title: 'Extensions'; display: [ (Object withAllSubclasses flatCollect: [ :each | (Pragma allNamed: #gtInspectorPresentationOrder: in: each) collect: [:p | p method asRingDefinition] ]) sorted ]; format: #gtDisplayString; filterOn: [ :text :each | each gtDisplayString includesSubstring: text caseSensitive: false ]

for example I have tried this and works fine and well, but since does not tell me anything about the API , for example what composite is, or where title and display come to play and generally how I can use this customisability for my classes. Your other dont help on this issue either. I did not know that you can use GTInspector as a browser replacement. I am impressed :)

I told you :)

Thierry

"But I don't understand it that well either, I just look at examples: find another inspector pane that looks or acts the way you want and go from there." I think its reasonable to assume that if someone does not find documentation will at least try to find examples. But example dont tell the full story , they dont describe intent, the why and the how, they only describe the what. In any case thanks for the pointers, I have not considered GTInspector and GT tools and I should have because they really back some very useful features and they seem quite customisable.

On 01 Dec 2014, at 23:06, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:

Glamour is an engine by itself, but for the inspector you mainly need the presentations, which are essentially widgets that can be parameterized through blocks. A custom presentation like this typically requires one method. If you want to get examples of how to apply it for the inspector, you can use the inspector to answer that question, as described here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions/

Yes, yes, very nice.

Thanks for the kind words, Kilon. Please feel free to ask questions. Cheers, Doru On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 11:29 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

"In my image, I have 144 such extensions taking on average 9 lines of code."

Impressive then apparently GT tools goes exactly the direction I wanted. I was aware of Glamour but to be frank I have not seen anyone else use it but you guys so I was kinda sceptical about it and did not took it very seriously. I was not aware that GT tools were built on top of Glamour and this certainly gives it more credit, I thought it was merely for making custom browsers looks like its a lot more than that. Thank you Tudor you gave me a lot of to read.

I definetly when to develop my tools and libraries in sync to the direction Pharo is going so I can take advantage of the existing code and not reinvent the wheel. So now I will sit down and study all these technologies and see how I can utilise them better in my workflow. Thank you for you hard work and taking the time explaining.

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 12:29 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:

...

...

On 01 Dec 2014, at 23:06, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:

Glamour is an engine by itself, but for the inspector you mainly need the presentations, which are essentially widgets that can be parameterized through blocks. A custom presentation like this typically requires one method. If you want to get examples of how to apply it for the inspector, you can use the inspector to answer that question, as described here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions/

Yes, yes, very nice.

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Indeed. It's planned. We definitely need a tour of these tools to be ready for Pharo 4.0. Doru On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 3:32 PM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:

doru you should write a book chapter with all this material.

Le 1/12/14 14:15, Tudor Girba a écrit :

Interesting that you are asking that question. This basically means that the whole philosophy of the GTInspector did not get communicated well. We have to work on this because I think GTInspector is the most significant step in object inspection since the introduction of the original inspector.

So, here is the main page: http://gt.moosetechnology.org

Here is the introduction:

http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/the-moldable-gtinspector-deconstructed...

Some examples: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/browsing-files-with-gtinspector/

http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/browsing-files-with-gtinspector-video/

http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-morph-keybindings-with-gtinsp...

http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/assessing-pharo-performance-with-gtins...

http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/dynamic-exploration-of-a-postgres-db-w...

How to manage the extensions: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions/

And a more thorough list: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahumane-assessment.com%20gtinspector

Cheers, Doru

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 1:21 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

...

"Take the inspector for example. It is a tiny piece of code that can be extended in many ways and in doing so, it can support various workflows."

What is its API and where is documented ?

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

2014-12-01 9:52 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:

On 29 Nov 2014, at 11:39, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

"- I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to use both."

In general we should enhance the ToolRegistry to not just register one tool, but instead keep all and have a UI in the settings where people can the change the tool used.

There is of course an issue entry for that at

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10529/ToolRegistry-need-to-support-multipl...

(this would not be a solution to "different tool per context", but nevertheless we need it)

It would be convenient, yes. At the same time, it's not much for additional tools to handle a set-as-default setting by themselves, except for the part where the API for unregistering a tool seems broken (I easily managed to throw my image into a DNU each time some tool wanted a browser, for example). Thierry

Marcus

2014-12-01 10:19 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:

The mechanism is very simple... if you remove a tool and then use it, there will be a DNU. (it should open instead window and tell that no tool is installed)

In fact, it's worse: it DNUs even if you still have some tools installed, just because you unregistered one of them. i.e. With AltBrowser installed, you have four browsers in your image: SystemBrowser, Nautilus, PackageTreeNautilus, and AltBrowser. If you unregister AltBrowser, you have a DNU, even if you have the three others still available. There is apparently some magic in the world menu to trigger a user-driven choice among existing tools, but I don't know how to trigger that. Thierry

Marcus

2014-12-01 10:32 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:

On 01 Dec 2014, at 10:26, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com> wrote:

2014-12-01 10:19 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:

...

The mechanism is very simple... if you remove a tool and then use it, there will be a DNU. (it should open instead window and tell that no tool is installed)

In fact, it's worse: it DNUs even if you still have some tools installed, just because you unregistered one of them.

i.e. With AltBrowser installed, you have four browsers in your image: SystemBrowser, Nautilus, PackageTreeNautilus, and AltBrowser. If you unregister AltBrowser, you have a DNU, even if you have the three others still available.

Yes, as they are there but not registered. ToolRegistry just knows about the *last* tool registered. If you unregister that, there is none (this is why ToolRegistry needs to be extended to remember all and just have the last be the default)

I disagree. Just force an interactive choice feels a lot better to me (and far simpler). Otherwise you'll see people jokeying for order for their tool, and anyway you have to provide a user setting. A cool one: open the settings browser at the right place, instead of creating an ad-hoc dialog. Reuse code + GUI familiarity + less lines of code. There is apparently some magic in the world menu to trigger a user-driven choice among existing tools, but I don't know how to trigger that. No, the only thing it does is to execute all the methods (in a some

un-defined order). The last tool's #registerToolsOn: then will be the one that ToolRegistry knows about.

There is somewhere a user-query that you can trigger under some circumstances. But I could not find it. I'll have a look. I noticed that unloading AltBrowser was a very nice way to end up with a dead Pharo image :( Remember, AltBrowser is clearly the best, so I won't provide a way back to the old ways :):):) Thierry

Marcus

Le 29/11/2014 11:29, phil@highoctane.be a écrit :

I have been using AltBrowser for a test.

Some feedback

- I like to see doc with my code so having to click back and forth is annoying and not conductive to writing class comments.

Good point. I wondered about having multiple text panes on the right (linked to multi-selection in the tree, such as selecting a comment + a method) but I decided against it on pure lazyness excuses (fear of code complexity / unable to see a simple way of doing it / able to get along without it). Given the size of the text pane on the right, it seems we could do a lot with it. But I have a feeling that having the start of a method allways at the same place (in the window) is significant. A "auto-appearing" comment pane at the bottom?

- I got a couple freezes

Interesting. If you find a way to reproduce them, I'll be happy.

- I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to use both.

Nautilus is still there. You can open one (PackageTreeNautilus open), but, yes, it could be nice to unregister AltBrowser. Wait, I think there is a settings option... Thierry

Phil

Le 29 nov. 2014 10:40, "Thierry Goubier" <thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> a écrit :

Le 29/11/2014 10:06, Hilaire a écrit :

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/__filters/?fClosedBugs=true&__ixPersonOpenedBy=1... <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/?fClosedBugs=true&ixPersonOpenedBy=194&s...>

Is that just me or is your filter/link not working?

Don't hesitate to voice your feelings even if they don't fit within bug reports. The fact you're writing this is a kind of report ;)

Making powerfull things simple is complex

Thierry

Le 29/11/2014 08:53, stepharo a écrit :

where?

Le 28/11/14 21:30, Hilaire a écrit :

Le 28/11/2014 08:07, Marcus Denker a écrit :

It is unstable with me. It is really feature complete, it is nice, but I

may use wrongly. May be with a simpler one I will do less mistake.

If nobody reports and fixes problems, they will stay forever.

Reported, they are.

Hilaire

Le 29/11/2014 16:28, phil@highoctane.be a écrit :

Doc at the bottom of the right pane would be nice.

Done for the pharo3 version, along with the ability to properly unregister AltBrowser from the settings (AltBrowser->make default browser). There is now a menu command toggling the comment pane(*). Comment is read-only even if one can type things in it(**). If we could add comments to protocols or packages, it would display those when appropriate. Oh, and for the fun :) It also works in the "message browser" mode as well as the "finder" results (which is something I wrote 0 lines for :)). Now some polishing is needed; you know better how you would like it to be, so its yours :) Thierry (*) Would that be better as a kind of setting? Making the menu longer for something you rarely switch on or off... (**) I'm lazy ;) It could be nice to have it as a more "floating" / or different color read-only pane to mark it as documentation, or even make it rw if you feel like it.

Phil

Le 29 nov. 2014 11:43, "Thierry Goubier" <thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> a écrit :

Le 29/11/2014 11:29, phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> a écrit :

I have been using AltBrowser for a test.

Some feedback

- I like to see doc with my code so having to click back and forth is annoying and not conductive to writing class comments.

Good point. I wondered about having multiple text panes on the right (linked to multi-selection in the tree, such as selecting a comment + a method) but I decided against it on pure lazyness excuses (fear of code complexity / unable to see a simple way of doing it / able to get along without it).

Given the size of the text pane on the right, it seems we could do a lot with it.

But I have a feeling that having the start of a method allways at the same place (in the window) is significant.

A "auto-appearing" comment pane at the bottom?

- I got a couple freezes

Interesting. If you find a way to reproduce them, I'll be happy.

- I wonder how to get back to Nautilus. It would be nice to be able to use both.

Nautilus is still there. You can open one (PackageTreeNautilus open), but, yes, it could be nice to unregister AltBrowser. Wait, I think there is a settings option...

Thierry

Phil

Le 29 nov. 2014 10:40, "Thierry Goubier" <thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com> <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.__com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>>> a écrit :

Le 29/11/2014 10:06, Hilaire a écrit :

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/____filters/?fClosedBugs=true&____ixPersonOpened... <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/__filters/?fClosedBugs=true&__ixPersonOpenedBy=1...>

<https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/__filters/?fClosedBugs=true&__ixPersonOpenedBy=1... <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/?fClosedBugs=true&ixPersonOpenedBy=194&sColumns=Category-Favorite-Case-TitleComment-Status-Priority-LastUpdated&sSearchFor=nautilus&sView=grid-flat>>

Is that just me or is your filter/link not working?

Don't hesitate to voice your feelings even if they don't fit within bug reports. The fact you're writing this is a kind of report ;)

Making powerfull things simple is complex

Thierry

Le 29/11/2014 08:53, stepharo a écrit :

where?

Le 28/11/14 21:30, Hilaire a écrit :

Le 28/11/2014 08:07, Marcus Denker a écrit :

It is unstable with me. It is really feature complete, it is nice, but I

may use wrongly. May be with a simpler one I will do less mistake.

If nobody reports and fixes problems, they will stay forever.

Reported, they are.

Hilaire