Excerpts from kilon alios's message of 2015-02-11 09:19:27 +0100:

Well done Martin, personally I would not recommend Pharo to beginner coders, but with Updated Pharo By Example near completion I may change my mind ;)

well, they are not beginner coders, at least i hope not. they should have taken some programming classes already. greetings, martin. -- eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life -- chief engineer eKita.co pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org secretary beijinglug.org mentor fossasia.org foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com unix sysadmin Martin Bähr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/

"I've found most of the changes we've made to be low level enough that PBE is still a great reference." Are we using the same Pharo ? Because my Pharo has massively improved since version 1.4 and has major changes they are definitely not low level . Also PBE lacks fundamental material that I added like how to use smalltalkhub , how to use Nautilus, and I added also a lot more to the 5 chapters I updated , mainly in the first 2. What PBE seriously lack is a good introductory chapter to OOP . I said I will do it but unfortunately I am having to much fun with my project "Ephestos" and learning SmaCC has been quite a challange for my limited free time. Maybe in the future. I also dont agree with the philosophy of dividing to many books. I would prefer it there was one unified book with 2 parts. 1 part will be the tutorial part and part 2 the reference. Like a super bible. PBE is an ok book and probably the most important pharo book out there, but its heavily outdated. So outdated at times it becomes unusable. But that is changing rapidly with UPBE and the effort me and others have put into it. Still with the rate Pharo is improving will be a challenge to keep things updated. "well, they are not beginner coders, at least i hope not. they should have taken some programming classes already." I would 100% recommend pharo to anyone with previous coding experience and I have done so to fellow python coders. At least give it a try and see if they like it. I think its awesome that you promote pharo we need more people like you that can help begineer pharo coders get introduced into pharo . One advice I would give you is to avoid recommending pharo areas that are not well documented and you cant help them with, learning through asking questions in the mailing list even though people are super nice here can be a frustrating experience for people that are outsiders of the community trying to get their barings. There many people , including me, that lack the confidence to do so in a comfortable way. Of course suffice to say I feel way more comfortable now that I was feeling when I was first introduced into Pharo. So people definitely should be encouraged to ask questions here , especially stupid questions. I have learned in my life the more stupid the question the more important it is :) On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:

kilon.alios wrote

...

I would not recommend Pharo to beginner coders, but with Updated Pharo By Example near completion I may change my mind ;)

I've found most of the changes we've made to be low level enough that PBE is still a great reference. And when Deep Into Pharo covered FileSystem, Metacello, and Settings, I thought we were doing pretty well. Where specifically have you found pain from our existing documentation? I know it's a bit scattered... Spec? There are two papers on that which we should maybe make more obviously accessible. Nautilus? Don't know about that one!

----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/get-them-while-they-are-young-tp4805068p4805142.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.