Phratch acknowledgement?
Hi all, I'm not sure this is the proper place to discuss this, but I just felt I had to write it down. I've just been taking a look at the Phratch GoogleCode site and I've noticed there is not a single mention of where the project comes from... As an opposite example, when Phratch started out a couple years ago, we were really fast and careful to put out a notice in the Scat site letting people know that the project had been taken over by another team. We spent months filing out code from Scratch -a Squeak 2.8 image with barely any tools available-, we fixed hundreds of issues, we recorded screenshots, we documented every step we followed, we implemented a way to save and load projects via Fuel, we got the original Scratch media plugins to work, etc. but there is no mention of any of this anywhere. The amount of work we put in the -unfortunately named- Scat project is huge. We spent more than a year (even some 3-4 months full-time) in it, and I don't think it's egocentric at all to ask for a little recognition of who were the people behind the original project and what was the state of Scat when the Phratch team took over. I don't mean to sound angry, I'm not. I'm sure no information was omitted in bad faith, but recognition of other people's work is something I take very seriously. :) Best, Bernat. -- Bernat Romagosa.
You are right, Bernat: in open source we build on an immense amount of work done by many developers all over the world and we should always recognise that properly, that is only fair. At least for me, I contribute to open source just because I am grateful for what I received and I want to give something back. Open source software is a prime example of planet wide human collaboration as it should be. Hopefully your request will be heard by those who can fix the (probably unintentional) omission. Sven On 10 Jan 2014, at 16:52, Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm not sure this is the proper place to discuss this, but I just felt I had to write it down.
I've just been taking a look at the Phratch GoogleCode site and I've noticed there is not a single mention of where the project comes from... As an opposite example, when Phratch started out a couple years ago, we were really fast and careful to put out a notice in the Scat site letting people know that the project had been taken over by another team.
We spent months filing out code from Scratch -a Squeak 2.8 image with barely any tools available-, we fixed hundreds of issues, we recorded screenshots, we documented every step we followed, we implemented a way to save and load projects via Fuel, we got the original Scratch media plugins to work, etc. but there is no mention of any of this anywhere.
The amount of work we put in the -unfortunately named- Scat project is huge. We spent more than a year (even some 3-4 months full-time) in it, and I don't think it's egocentric at all to ask for a little recognition of who were the people behind the original project and what was the state of Scat when the Phratch team took over.
I don't mean to sound angry, I'm not. I'm sure no information was omitted in bad faith, but recognition of other people's work is something I take very seriously.
:)
Best, Bernat.
-- Bernat Romagosa.
Dear Bernat, I will be happy to add something about Scat on the website (I already added a sentence to fix this issue). Now, we can probably do better together. I am sorry for this omission, I made the google code page too fast and I have to do it better (It is on my todo list !). You can also contact us on the phratch mailing-list: phratch@googlegroups.com Cheers, Jannik 2014/1/10 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>
You are right, Bernat: in open source we build on an immense amount of work done by many developers all over the world and we should always recognise that properly, that is only fair.
At least for me, I contribute to open source just because I am grateful for what I received and I want to give something back.
Open source software is a prime example of planet wide human collaboration as it should be.
Hopefully your request will be heard by those who can fix the (probably unintentional) omission.
Sven
On 10 Jan 2014, at 16:52, Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm not sure this is the proper place to discuss this, but I just felt I had to write it down.
I've just been taking a look at the Phratch GoogleCode site and I've noticed there is not a single mention of where the project comes from... As an opposite example, when Phratch started out a couple years ago, we were really fast and careful to put out a notice in the Scat site letting people know that the project had been taken over by another team.
We spent months filing out code from Scratch -a Squeak 2.8 image with barely any tools available-, we fixed hundreds of issues, we recorded screenshots, we documented every step we followed, we implemented a way to save and load projects via Fuel, we got the original Scratch media plugins to work, etc. but there is no mention of any of this anywhere.
The amount of work we put in the -unfortunately named- Scat project is huge. We spent more than a year (even some 3-4 months full-time) in it, and I don't think it's egocentric at all to ask for a little recognition of who were the people behind the original project and what was the state of Scat when the Phratch team took over.
I don't mean to sound angry, I'm not. I'm sure no information was omitted in bad faith, but recognition of other people's work is something I take very seriously.
:)
Best, Bernat.
-- Bernat Romagosa.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://car.mines-douai.fr/
Hi Jannik, Thanks, that's all we needed! :) Sorry, I missed the email to the phratch list, otherwise I'd have written there in the first place. Cheers, Bernat. 2014/1/10 jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com>
Dear Bernat,
I will be happy to add something about Scat on the website (I already added a sentence to fix this issue). Now, we can probably do better together.
I am sorry for this omission, I made the google code page too fast and I have to do it better (It is on my todo list !).
You can also contact us on the phratch mailing-list: phratch@googlegroups.com
Cheers, Jannik
2014/1/10 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>
You are right, Bernat: in open source we build on an immense amount of work done by many developers all over the world and we should always recognise that properly, that is only fair.
At least for me, I contribute to open source just because I am grateful for what I received and I want to give something back.
Open source software is a prime example of planet wide human collaboration as it should be.
Hopefully your request will be heard by those who can fix the (probably unintentional) omission.
Sven
On 10 Jan 2014, at 16:52, Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm not sure this is the proper place to discuss this, but I just felt I had to write it down.
I've just been taking a look at the Phratch GoogleCode site and I've noticed there is not a single mention of where the project comes from... As an opposite example, when Phratch started out a couple years ago, we were really fast and careful to put out a notice in the Scat site letting people know that the project had been taken over by another team.
We spent months filing out code from Scratch -a Squeak 2.8 image with barely any tools available-, we fixed hundreds of issues, we recorded screenshots, we documented every step we followed, we implemented a way to save and load projects via Fuel, we got the original Scratch media plugins to work, etc. but there is no mention of any of this anywhere.
The amount of work we put in the -unfortunately named- Scat project is huge. We spent more than a year (even some 3-4 months full-time) in it, and I don't think it's egocentric at all to ask for a little recognition of who were the people behind the original project and what was the state of Scat when the Phratch team took over.
I don't mean to sound angry, I'm not. I'm sure no information was omitted in bad faith, but recognition of other people's work is something I take very seriously.
:)
Best, Bernat.
-- Bernat Romagosa.
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://car.mines-douai.fr/
-- Bernat Romagosa.
On Jan 10, 2014, at 5:30 PM, Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Jannik,
Thanks, that's all we needed! :)
Sorry, I missed the email to the phratch list, otherwise I'd have written there in the first place.
No problem ;) Jannik
Cheers, Bernat.
2014/1/10 jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> Dear Bernat,
I will be happy to add something about Scat on the website (I already added a sentence to fix this issue). Now, we can probably do better together.
I am sorry for this omission, I made the google code page too fast and I have to do it better (It is on my todo list !).
You can also contact us on the phratch mailing-list: phratch@googlegroups.com
Cheers, Jannik
2014/1/10 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> You are right, Bernat: in open source we build on an immense amount of work done by many developers all over the world and we should always recognise that properly, that is only fair.
At least for me, I contribute to open source just because I am grateful for what I received and I want to give something back.
Open source software is a prime example of planet wide human collaboration as it should be.
Hopefully your request will be heard by those who can fix the (probably unintentional) omission.
Sven
On 10 Jan 2014, at 16:52, Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm not sure this is the proper place to discuss this, but I just felt I had to write it down.
I've just been taking a look at the Phratch GoogleCode site and I've noticed there is not a single mention of where the project comes from... As an opposite example, when Phratch started out a couple years ago, we were really fast and careful to put out a notice in the Scat site letting people know that the project had been taken over by another team.
We spent months filing out code from Scratch -a Squeak 2.8 image with barely any tools available-, we fixed hundreds of issues, we recorded screenshots, we documented every step we followed, we implemented a way to save and load projects via Fuel, we got the original Scratch media plugins to work, etc. but there is no mention of any of this anywhere.
The amount of work we put in the -unfortunately named- Scat project is huge. We spent more than a year (even some 3-4 months full-time) in it, and I don't think it's egocentric at all to ask for a little recognition of who were the people behind the original project and what was the state of Scat when the Phratch team took over.
I don't mean to sound angry, I'm not. I'm sure no information was omitted in bad faith, but recognition of other people's work is something I take very seriously.
:)
Best, Bernat.
-- Bernat Romagosa.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://car.mines-douai.fr/
-- Bernat Romagosa.
Hi Bernat, You should contact To me, I thought that they are not really two projects but one: a new name and a new developer. Both was needed: You paved the way and it was very sad that the sorry state of the code base burned you! I think this shows the power of open source: Even when you have to give up in the end, it can be that the work was not for nothing and the code starts to have new live⦠What will be interesting what comes out⦠e.g. someone could take this great stuff: http://s4a.cat and combine it with Phratch... On 10 Jan 2014, at 16:52, Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm not sure this is the proper place to discuss this, but I just felt I had to write it down.
I've just been taking a look at the Phratch GoogleCode site and I've noticed there is not a single mention of where the project comes from... As an opposite example, when Phratch started out a couple years ago, we were really fast and careful to put out a notice in the Scat site letting people know that the project had been taken over by another team.
We spent months filing out code from Scratch -a Squeak 2.8 image with barely any tools available-, we fixed hundreds of issues, we recorded screenshots, we documented every step we followed, we implemented a way to save and load projects via Fuel, we got the original Scratch media plugins to work, etc. but there is no mention of any of this anywhere.
The amount of work we put in the -unfortunately named- Scat project is huge. We spent more than a year (even some 3-4 months full-time) in it, and I don't think it's egocentric at all to ask for a little recognition of who were the people behind the original project and what was the state of Scat when the Phratch team took over.
I don't mean to sound angry, I'm not. I'm sure no information was omitted in bad faith, but recognition of other people's work is something I take very seriously.
:)
Best, Bernat.
-- Bernat Romagosa.
Hi Marcus, 2014/1/10 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
Hi Bernat,
You should contact
To me, I thought that they are not really two projects but one: a new name and a new developer. Both was needed: You paved the way and it was very sad that the sorry state of the code base burned you!
Indeed, and I'm really happy to see our effort was not in vain! The way we were headed, we would have never gotten where Phratch is now... I think this shows the power of open source: Even when you have to give up
in the end, it can be that the work was not for nothing and the code starts to have new liveâ¦
What will be interesting what comes out⦠e.g. someone could take this great stuff: http://s4a.cat and combine it with Phratch...
Actually, the S4A guys are ourselves here at Citilab! Merging sounds like a really good idea, and since I've been working to get Snap4Arduino working ( http://s4a.cat/snap), and the server runs on Pharo, it should not be difficult to merge Phratch with part of that code to get S4A to work on Pharo 2.0. I'll see what I can do in this direction. Best, Bernat. -- Bernat Romagosa.
On Jan 10, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Marcus,
2014/1/10 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> Hi Bernat,
You should contact
To me, I thought that they are not really two projects but one: a new name and a new developer. Both was needed: You paved the way and it was very sad that the sorry state of the code base burned you!
Indeed, and I'm really happy to see our effort was not in vain! The way we were headed, we would have never gotten where Phratch is now...
I think this shows the power of open source: Even when you have to give up in the end, it can be that the work was not for nothing and the code starts to have new liveâ¦
What will be interesting what comes out⦠e.g. someone could take this great stuff: http://s4a.cat and combine it with Phratch...
Actually, the S4A guys are ourselves here at Citilab! Merging sounds like a really good idea, and since I've been working to get Snap4Arduino working (http://s4a.cat/snap), and the server runs on Pharo, it should not be difficult to merge Phratch with part of that code to get S4A to work on Pharo 2.0. I'll see what I can do in this direction.
Hum interesting, I will try it. Now, If you want to add it in Phratch, it is really easy. I will write a small doc to explain how to do that. How do you communicate with the Arduino ? Is it a plugin ? Jannik
Best, Bernat.
-- Bernat Romagosa.
participants (5)
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Bernat Romagosa -
jannik laval -
jannik.laval
-
Marcus Denker -
Sven Van Caekenberghe