By the way,.... this is why I am pushing so hard. https://makerspacenanaimo.org/software-smalltalk-night/ Sebastian Am 13.02.2015 um 09:49 schrieb Sebastian Heidbrink:

Hallo Sven,

thank you for the video link, google linked me to a video from 2013 that was not recorded in a way that once could follwo the presentation. This one is super.

Well, I think I am slowly getting there and I can more and more provide you with the uneccessary barries of Spec that I encountered.

In the talk at 15:35 min Johan mentions the need of a interpreter and this method is mentionded several times during the talk. Browse your Pharo image,.... there is none! So what is misleading in the current Spec implementation and the examples is the follwong fact. The developer is confronted with Model classes that actually are ViewModels. Actions for buttons are implemented in Blocks which gives the developer intially the feeling that Control Layer and Model/ViewModel layer are one. The SpecDefinitions do not work properly in my case and Stephan just found out some issues with font sizes,.... well I have Moose and Roassal in my image and my fonts are no more default .... well my fault. I just hope I will still be able to somehow find a solution for this issue. And last but not least, the all examples have no interpreter/control or real model layer.... This is why I think it would be very helpful for beginners to have one example, like a sushi store, where one can actually see how an application is built through all the layers....

Sushi store?! Well, That was an example for a demo that show cases a whole technology. And I meant exactly some thing like the HPCalculator!

Well, I need to do some tests based on what I 've learnt now,.... I have no idea about adaptors, yet, but it seems they need to be understod a little later.... Is there a project/repository where one could push code to give other the chance to review and chance it before it is published as a "demo" or example?

Sebastian

Am 13.02.2015 um 01:12 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe:

...

Hi,

From now on it is forbidden to complain about Spec in general, unspecific terms unless you have taken the time to learn about it. Here is a guide to documentation about Spec, most recent first.

There is an excellent presentation by Johan Fabry did during the last Pharo Days, 'Using Spec to Build a UI'. *MUST WATCH* (the video is not yet fully public, but soon will be, the link should work though):

http://youtu.be/OL23s9ZUIR0?list=PL4actYd6bfnz98ngrKALwwStl3C3odEKG

The slides are also not yet available, but soon will be (the talk is much better that the slides on their own).

This draft chapter 'Spec: a framework for describing user interfaces' for an upcoming book:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInProgres...

Look in the image.

Browse the hierarchy below AbstractWidgetModel in the category Spec-Core-Widgets in Pharo 4, look at the protocols called 'protocol' & 'protocol-events' mainly. Look for references to each class. Trace senders of methods until you arrive at examples. Study the examples, play with them, change them.

The UI of most tools in Pharo is also implemented using Spec. Browse the hierarchy below ComposableModel to find them. (Komitter, Versionner, Critics, Metacello, the old Eye Inspectors, ..). Watch and learn.

The cool Spec website:

http://spec.st

Read some cool articles like:

https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/rediscovering-the-ux-of-the-legendary-hp...

See the section 'HP35CalculatorModel' for the Spec part.

The following papers (some older ones refer to API that has changed):

'Seamless Composition and Reuse of Customizable User Interfaces with Spec'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse13a-SCICO-Spec.pdf

'Spec - A Framework for the Specification and Reuse of UIs and their Models'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse12b-Spec-IWST12-Final.pdf

'Spec – Technical Report'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/reports/Ryse12a-SpecTechReport.pdf

Use the image to build a couple of simple UIs using Spec. You will be surprised to learn that it is not that difficult. Just go with the flow, don't try to enforce your world view on it, wait until you are further along.

Have fun !

Sven

PS: Once you have done all the above, you are most welcome to help improve Spec by discussing specific, concrete issues.

-- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org

On 13 Feb 2015, at 18:49, Sebastian Heidbrink <sheidev@yahoo.de> wrote:

Hallo Sven,

thank you for the video link, google linked me to a video from 2013 that was not recorded in a way that once could follwo the presentation. This one is super.

Well, I think I am slowly getting there and I can more and more provide you with the uneccessary barries of Spec that I encountered.

In the talk at 15:35 min Johan mentions the need of a interpreter and this method is mentionded several times during the talk. Browse your Pharo image,.... there is none!

The class is called SpecInterpreter. But this is an implementation detail, not related to application logic.

So what is misleading in the current Spec implementation and the examples is the follwong fact. The developer is confronted with Model classes that actually are ViewModels. Actions for buttons are implemented in Blocks which gives the developer intially the feeling that Control Layer and Model/ViewModel layer are one. The SpecDefinitions do not work properly in my case and Stephan just found out some issues with font sizes,.... well I have Moose and Roassal in my image and my fonts are no more default .... well my fault. I just hope I will still be able to somehow find a solution for this issue.

Specs certainly work. The font stuff also works, it is just not complete (enough) (yet), but it is good enough.

And last but not least, the all examples have no interpreter/control or real model layer....

But you are looking too far: your domain model is just an object, its behaviour is the control layer, it uses announcements to signal changes.

This is why I think it would be very helpful for beginners to have one example, like a sushi store, where one can actually see how an application is built through all the layers....

But again, there is no 'one' thing, there are many options, styles.

Sushi store?! Well, That was an example for a demo that show cases a whole technology. And I meant exactly some thing like the HPCalculator!

I understand the need. I did my part with the HP35, with a clear model and 2 UI's sharing 1 specification as well as unit tests on 2 levels. But like I said, there are lots of real world examples inside and outside the image.

Well, I need to do some tests based on what I 've learnt now,.... I have no idea about adaptors, yet, but it seems they need to be understod a little later.... Is there a project/repository where one could push code to give other the chance to review and chance it before it is published as a "demo" or example?

You could just start a new repo on smalltalkhub.com or even github.com

Sebastian

Am 13.02.2015 um 01:12 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe:

...

Hi,

From now on it is forbidden to complain about Spec in general, unspecific terms unless you have taken the time to learn about it. Here is a guide to documentation about Spec, most recent first.

There is an excellent presentation by Johan Fabry did during the last Pharo Days, 'Using Spec to Build a UI'. *MUST WATCH* (the video is not yet fully public, but soon will be, the link should work though):

http://youtu.be/OL23s9ZUIR0?list=PL4actYd6bfnz98ngrKALwwStl3C3odEKG

The slides are also not yet available, but soon will be (the talk is much better that the slides on their own).

This draft chapter 'Spec: a framework for describing user interfaces' for an upcoming book:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInProgres...

Look in the image.

Browse the hierarchy below AbstractWidgetModel in the category Spec-Core-Widgets in Pharo 4, look at the protocols called 'protocol' & 'protocol-events' mainly. Look for references to each class. Trace senders of methods until you arrive at examples. Study the examples, play with them, change them.

The UI of most tools in Pharo is also implemented using Spec. Browse the hierarchy below ComposableModel to find them. (Komitter, Versionner, Critics, Metacello, the old Eye Inspectors, ..). Watch and learn.

The cool Spec website:

http://spec.st

Read some cool articles like:

https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/rediscovering-the-ux-of-the-legendary-hp...

See the section 'HP35CalculatorModel' for the Spec part.

The following papers (some older ones refer to API that has changed):

'Seamless Composition and Reuse of Customizable User Interfaces with Spec'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse13a-SCICO-Spec.pdf

'Spec - A Framework for the Specification and Reuse of UIs and their Models'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse12b-Spec-IWST12-Final.pdf

'Spec – Technical Report'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/reports/Ryse12a-SpecTechReport.pdf

Use the image to build a couple of simple UIs using Spec. You will be surprised to learn that it is not that difficult. Just go with the flow, don't try to enforce your world view on it, wait until you are further along.

Have fun !

Sven

PS: Once you have done all the above, you are most welcome to help improve Spec by discussing specific, concrete issues.

-- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org

To clarify: in my talk when I mention the interpreter, this has nothing to do with Spec. This is something specific to the example (= a complete IDE for a programming language for robots … with its interpreter), so I did not want to talk about because in the end it has no relevance to the story.

On Feb 13, 2015, at 18:49, Sebastian Heidbrink <sheidev@yahoo.de> wrote:

In the talk at 15:35 min Johan mentions the need of a interpreter and this method is mentionded several times during the talk. Browse your Pharo image,.... there is none!

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

So Spec is the Blue stuff and the HP35 example is including the orange part.

Just the light blue, no? I thought the dark blue (VIew) is Morpic. Peter

As I say in my talk, there are a bunch of completely working examples already in the image. Please have a look at the subclasses of ComposableModel I think that there should be enough examples there to help you understand how a full application is built.

On Feb 13, 2015, at 18:49, Sebastian Heidbrink <sheidev@yahoo.de> wrote:

This is why I think it would be very helpful for beginners to have one example, like a sushi store, where one can actually see how an application is built through all the layers....

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Thanks Craig. Can you fileout a minimal code script to reproduce these errors in a fresh image? Either post here or even better, open an issue at https://pharo.fogbugz.com with the fileout attached at paste the link to the issue here. cheers -ben On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:36 AM, Craig <craig@hivemind.net> wrote:

Hi Sven,

I count myself as a beginner with Pharo, although I've been dabbling with Pharo UI choices for a few months now. Like Sebastian, I wrote Spec off as too immature for prime-time, but I too come from the commercial world, so maybe my expectations were unrealistic.

So I took the time to learn Spec. My very first requirement is to display some data in a grid or table like manner, so I took a look at the TreeModel, and tried to adapt one of the examples to fit. However, whenever I try to add a third column to the model, I get a "Subscript Out of Bounds". I also tried to change the oddRowColor, but it had no effect.

I hope that is specific enough for you.

Craig

-----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 13 February 2015 11:12 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: [Pharo-users] Learning Spec

Hi,

From now on it is forbidden to complain about Spec in general, unspecific terms unless you have taken the time to learn about it. Here is a guide to documentation about Spec, most recent first.

There is an excellent presentation by Johan Fabry did during the last Pharo Days, 'Using Spec to Build a UI'. *MUST WATCH* (the video is not yet fully public, but soon will be, the link should work though):

http://youtu.be/OL23s9ZUIR0?list=PL4actYd6bfnz98ngrKALwwStl3C3odEKG

The slides are also not yet available, but soon will be (the talk is much better that the slides on their own).

This draft chapter 'Spec: a framework for describing user interfaces' for an upcoming book:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInProgres...

Look in the image.

Browse the hierarchy below AbstractWidgetModel in the category Spec-Core-Widgets in Pharo 4, look at the protocols called 'protocol' & 'protocol-events' mainly. Look for references to each class. Trace senders of methods until you arrive at examples. Study the examples, play with them, change them.

The UI of most tools in Pharo is also implemented using Spec. Browse the hierarchy below ComposableModel to find them. (Komitter, Versionner, Critics, Metacello, the old Eye Inspectors, ..). Watch and learn.

The cool Spec website:

http://spec.st

Read some cool articles like:

https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/rediscovering-the-ux-of-the-legendary-hp...

See the section 'HP35CalculatorModel' for the Spec part.

The following papers (some older ones refer to API that has changed):

'Seamless Composition and Reuse of Customizable User Interfaces with Spec'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse13a-SCICO-Spec.pdf

'Spec - A Framework for the Specification and Reuse of UIs and their Models'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse12b-Spec-IWST12-Final.pdf

'Spec – Technical Report'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/reports/Ryse12a-SpecTechReport.pdf

Use the image to build a couple of simple UIs using Spec. You will be surprised to learn that it is not that difficult. Just go with the flow, don't try to enforce your world view on it, wait until you are further along.

Have fun !

Sven

PS: Once you have done all the above, you are most welcome to help improve Spec by discussing specific, concrete issues.

-- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org

Another example, (modified TreeModel example) |r m col1 col2 col3| r := FileLocator vmDirectory. m := TreeModel new. m roots: r allFiles. m rootNodeHolder: [ :item | TreeNodeModel new content: item; icon: Smalltalk ui icons smallLeftFlushIcon ]; title: r fullName. col1 := TreeColumnModel new displayBlock: [ :node | node content basename ]; headerLabel:'Name'. col2 := TreeColumnModel new displayBlock: [ :node | node content creationTime ]; headerLabel:'Time'. col3 := TreeColumnModel new displayBlock: [ :node | node content permissions]; headerLabel:'Permissions'. m columns: {col1. col2 . col3}. m openWithSpec. 2015-02-15 23:30 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:

This is the easiest way that I know to show a simple table.

MultiColumnListModel new items: #(('x coordinate' 'y coordinate' 'z coordinate')(1 2 3)(4 5 6)(7 8 9)); displayBlock: [ :x | x collect: #asString ]; setSelectedIndex: 2; title: 'My table'; openWithSpec.

...

On 15 Feb 2015, at 22:36, Craig <craig@hivemind.net> wrote:

Hi Sven,

I count myself as a beginner with Pharo, although I've been dabbling with Pharo UI choices for a few months now. Like Sebastian, I wrote Spec off as too immature for prime-time, but I too come from the commercial world, so maybe my expectations were unrealistic.

So I took the time to learn Spec. My very first requirement is to display some data in a grid or table like manner, so I took a look at the TreeModel, and tried to adapt one of the examples to fit. However, whenever I try to add a third column to the model, I get a "Subscript Out of Bounds". I also tried to change the oddRowColor, but it had no effect.

I hope that is specific enough for you.

Craig

-----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 13 February 2015 11:12 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: [Pharo-users] Learning Spec

Hi,

From now on it is forbidden to complain about Spec in general, unspecific terms unless you have taken the time to learn about it. Here is a guide to documentation about Spec, most recent first.

There is an excellent presentation by Johan Fabry did during the last Pharo Days, 'Using Spec to Build a UI'. *MUST WATCH* (the video is not yet fully public, but soon will be, the link should work though):

http://youtu.be/OL23s9ZUIR0?list=PL4actYd6bfnz98ngrKALwwStl3C3odEKG

The slides are also not yet available, but soon will be (the talk is much better that the slides on their own).

This draft chapter 'Spec: a framework for describing user interfaces' for an upcoming book:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInProgres...

...

Look in the image.

Browse the hierarchy below AbstractWidgetModel in the category

Spec-Core-Widgets in Pharo 4, look at the protocols called 'protocol' & 'protocol-events' mainly. Look for references to each class. Trace senders of methods until you arrive at examples. Study the examples, play with them, change them.

...

The UI of most tools in Pharo is also implemented using Spec. Browse the

hierarchy below ComposableModel to find them. (Komitter, Versionner, Critics, Metacello, the old Eye Inspectors, ..). Watch and learn.

...

The cool Spec website:

http://spec.st

Read some cool articles like:

https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/rediscovering-the-ux-of-the-legendary-hp...

...

See the section 'HP35CalculatorModel' for the Spec part.

The following papers (some older ones refer to API that has changed):

'Seamless Composition and Reuse of Customizable User Interfaces with

Spec'

...

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse13a-SCICO-Spec.pdf

'Spec - A Framework for the Specification and Reuse of UIs and their

Models'

...

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse12b-Spec-IWST12-Final.pdf

...

'Spec – Technical Report'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/reports/Ryse12a-SpecTechReport.pdf

Use the image to build a couple of simple UIs using Spec. You will be

surprised to learn that it is not that difficult. Just go with the flow, don't try to enforce your world view on it, wait until you are further along.

...

Have fun !

Sven

PS: Once you have done all the above, you are most welcome to help

improve Spec by discussing specific, concrete issues.

...

-- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org

Sven, Thanks for this, I was unaware of the MultiColumnListModel. I notice that setting colors has no effect here either. I remember from the video that overriding theme colors is still an issue in Spec, but I can move forward. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 16 February 2015 12:30 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Learning Spec This is the easiest way that I know to show a simple table. MultiColumnListModel new items: #(('x coordinate' 'y coordinate' 'z coordinate')(1 2 3)(4 5 6)(7 8 9)); displayBlock: [ :x | x collect: #asString ]; setSelectedIndex: 2; title: 'My table'; openWithSpec.

On 15 Feb 2015, at 22:36, Craig <craig@hivemind.net> wrote:

Hi Sven,

I count myself as a beginner with Pharo, although I've been dabbling with Pharo UI choices for a few months now. Like Sebastian, I wrote Spec off as too immature for prime-time, but I too come from the commercial world, so maybe my expectations were unrealistic.

So I took the time to learn Spec. My very first requirement is to display some data in a grid or table like manner, so I took a look at the TreeModel, and tried to adapt one of the examples to fit. However, whenever I try to add a third column to the model, I get a "Subscript Out of Bounds". I also tried to change the oddRowColor, but it had no effect.

I hope that is specific enough for you.

Craig

-----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 13 February 2015 11:12 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: [Pharo-users] Learning Spec

Hi,

From now on it is forbidden to complain about Spec in general, unspecific terms unless you have taken the time to learn about it. Here is a guide to documentation about Spec, most recent first.

There is an excellent presentation by Johan Fabry did during the last Pharo Days, 'Using Spec to Build a UI'. *MUST WATCH* (the video is not yet fully public, but soon will be, the link should work though):

http://youtu.be/OL23s9ZUIR0?list=PL4actYd6bfnz98ngrKALwwStl3C3odEKG

The slides are also not yet available, but soon will be (the talk is much better that the slides on their own).

This draft chapter 'Spec: a framework for describing user interfaces' for an upcoming book:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInP rogress/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Spec/Spec.pier.html

Look in the image.

Browse the hierarchy below AbstractWidgetModel in the category Spec-Core-Widgets in Pharo 4, look at the protocols called 'protocol' & 'protocol-events' mainly. Look for references to each class. Trace senders of methods until you arrive at examples. Study the examples, play with them, change them.

The UI of most tools in Pharo is also implemented using Spec. Browse the hierarchy below ComposableModel to find them. (Komitter, Versionner, Critics, Metacello, the old Eye Inspectors, ..). Watch and learn.

The cool Spec website:

http://spec.st

Read some cool articles like:

https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/rediscovering-the-ux-of-the-legend ary-hp-35-scientific-pocket-calculator-d1d497ece999

See the section 'HP35CalculatorModel' for the Spec part.

The following papers (some older ones refer to API that has changed):

'Seamless Composition and Reuse of Customizable User Interfaces with Spec'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse13a-SCICO-Spec.pdf

'Spec - A Framework for the Specification and Reuse of UIs and their Models'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse12b-Spec-IWST12-Final.p df

'Spec – Technical Report'

http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/reports/Ryse12a-SpecTechReport.pdf

Use the image to build a couple of simple UIs using Spec. You will be surprised to learn that it is not that difficult. Just go with the flow, don't try to enforce your world view on it, wait until you are further along.

Have fun !

Sven

PS: Once you have done all the above, you are most welcome to help improve Spec by discussing specific, concrete issues.

-- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org