Web stack practices (Glorp / QCMagritte)
Hi all, it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;) We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement. Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ? We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ? ( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. ) May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ? Best regards, Laurent Laffont
Laurent, Regarding QCMagritte I don't know, since I don't use it. I've used Magritte and Glorp, but didn't bind them, the only special thing I built for it was an "evented memento" that let me edit a tree of objects (1:N relations derived from the edited object) within a single DB transaction. Regarding migrations I recently found that in VisualWorks Glorp provides a migration-like strategy, where you define a subclass of a root Description system, and then can use the diffing to create the migration. According to the VW docs, you can do it like this: sessOld := MyDescriptorSystem new sessionForLogin: aLogin. sessNew := MyDescriptorSystem01 new sessionForLogin: aLogin. sessOld system migrateTo: sessNew system. Such feature is not available in the Pharo port, and migrations are not automatic, since you need a new class for each migration. It is something I'd need to play with before porting it to Pharo, if it's worth it. Maybe we think about another strategy but still using the DDL objects of Glorp. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2017-09-18 7:22 GMT-03:00 laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com>:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
Laurent, I don't have answers to all your questions, but we use Glorp & Seaside (no Magritte) on VA Smalltalk for our cloud service (http://kontolino.de). Am 18.09.17 um 12:22 schrieb laurent:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in  load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records  but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement. Sounds interesting.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We use a similar approach: our Descriptor class has a method called schemaVersion, which just returns the current version number. We also have a "magic" table for settings in our DB, just holding a "name" and a "value" column, both being Varchars. One of the rows has a name of "SchemaVersion" and the value is (you guessed it) the printString of the version number. Our images accept a few command line paramters, one of them being --upgradeSchema. It compoares the number in the DB with the one provided by the descriptor. If they match, the image quits. If not, it calls all methods named #upgradeSchemaToVersionXXX until it reaches the number in the Descriptor. Thus we can do both SQL based migrations, like DDL stuff, as well as Smalltalk object based migrations (which can be sooo much faster to implement for complex cases). And we have all versioned and maintained in our beloved Envy repository ;-) . The rest is just bash script magic (like only starting one image with the --upgradeSchema parameter and only start the real web workers once that one has ended succesfully). About load balancing: You need Sticky sessions, so no failover between images. If one image crashes, the user must re-logon on a new image. Works nicely with Apache, I guess nginx works as least as well. For Apache, look for mod_prox_balancer to learn more. Hope I could give you a few starting points for your research. And I also hope you'll find Pharo+Garage+Glorp+QCMagritte a good fit for your project. We all want success stories ;-) Joachim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de Fliederweg 1Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â http://www.objektfabrik.de D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0Â Â Â Â Â Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1
Thank you Esteban & Joachim for your answers. Laurent Le lun. 18 sept. 2017 à 14:58, jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <jtuchel@objektfabrik.de> a écrit :
Laurent,
I don't have answers to all your questions, but we use Glorp & Seaside (no Magritte) on VA Smalltalk for our cloud service (http://kontolino.de).
Am 18.09.17 um 12:22 schrieb laurent:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement. Sounds interesting.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We use a similar approach: our Descriptor class has a method called schemaVersion, which just returns the current version number. We also have a "magic" table for settings in our DB, just holding a "name" and a "value" column, both being Varchars. One of the rows has a name of "SchemaVersion" and the value is (you guessed it) the printString of the version number.
Our images accept a few command line paramters, one of them being --upgradeSchema. It compoares the number in the DB with the one provided by the descriptor. If they match, the image quits. If not, it calls all methods named #upgradeSchemaToVersionXXX until it reaches the number in the Descriptor. Thus we can do both SQL based migrations, like DDL stuff, as well as Smalltalk object based migrations (which can be sooo much faster to implement for complex cases). And we have all versioned and maintained in our beloved Envy repository ;-) . The rest is just bash script magic (like only starting one image with the --upgradeSchema parameter and only start the real web workers once that one has ended succesfully).
About load balancing: You need Sticky sessions, so no failover between images. If one image crashes, the user must re-logon on a new image. Works nicely with Apache, I guess nginx works as least as well. For Apache, look for mod_prox_balancer to learn more.
Hope I could give you a few starting points for your research. And I also hope you'll find Pharo+Garage+Glorp+QCMagritte a good fit for your project. We all want success stories ;-)
Joachim
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1
Hi laurent Let us know how we can help. If necessary we can send our 15 year experience Java Architect and nearly the same in Pharo (Esteban) to meet you at Annecy. Did you see that Sven released also a native driver for SQL30? I do not remember. I do not know if you see but sorabito deploys everything in Pharo and they mixed also mustache and Seaside. BTW I know a german company that got a nice and large project for a large train company and they will use Pharo on the server (plus mobile apps and others). I can put you in contact also. Mariano and Quuve used Gemstone + magritte. But this is not the same techno :) Stef On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 12:22 PM, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
laurent laffont wrote
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
Laurent, I realize you are asking this on the Pharo list, looking for a Pharo-specific answer. You should also post your requirements on the GLASS list (http://forum.world.st/GLASS-f1460844.html). A number of people/businesses there use a /develop on Pharo, deploy on GemStone approach/. They will be able to give you some good advice on using GemStone/S for your database.
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi Richard,
Laurent, I realize you are asking this on the Pharo list, looking for a Pharo-specific answer. You should also post your requirements on the GLASS list (http://forum.world.st/GLASS-f1460844.html). A number of people/businesses there use a /develop on Pharo, deploy on GemStone approach/. They will be able to give you some good advice on using GemStone/S for your database.
My team build free (AGPL) software and we require a full open stack. I've read several testimonials about Gemstone qualities, nevertheless it could not be an option for this project. Regards, Laurent
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
On 18-09-17 12:22, laurent wrote:
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
I really like describing domain objects with Magritte and using chains of visitors to add cross-cutting concerns like translations, styling and access control. The resulting domain code is very clean and DRY. To map to database/Glorp I would just add properties to the description wherever needed, and add a visitor creating the mappings. We didn't need that as we developed in Pharo and deployed on Gemstone. At the moment QC generates applications using jQuery, and the live updating needs a round-trip to the server. You might want to substitute that with something that does more client side. I haven't looked in detail at what Johan Brichau is doing. An open issue is live updates that update each other. That needs automatically calculating dependencies and update order. I've copied the latest configuration and added #'pharo6.x' but that is not enough. Stephan
Hi Stephan, actually the difficult part is how to manage correctly Glorp sessions/connections and update of objects in database. My team is quite sad because QCMagritte and Glorp looks nice but we lack experience glueing both together and could not find any documentation on the subject. Laurent Le mer. 20 sept. 2017 à 11:53, stephan <stephan@stack.nl> a écrit :
On 18-09-17 12:22, laurent wrote:
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
I really like describing domain objects with Magritte and using chains of visitors to add cross-cutting concerns like translations, styling and access control. The resulting domain code is very clean and DRY. To map to database/Glorp I would just add properties to the description wherever needed, and add a visitor creating the mappings. We didn't need that as we developed in Pharo and deployed on Gemstone.
At the moment QC generates applications using jQuery, and the live updating needs a round-trip to the server. You might want to substitute that with something that does more client side. I haven't looked in detail at what Johan Brichau is doing.
An open issue is live updates that update each other. That needs automatically calculating dependencies and update order.
I've copied the latest configuration and added #'pharo6.x' but that is not enough.
Stephan
Hi Laurent, I am happy that you like QCMagritte. I wrote quite some parts of it, but it also has been a while since I last used it. I try to support it in my spare time, so I will look into the issue that prevents it from loading into pharo 6. Here some ideas that I think of, QCMagritte is a stack based on Seaside and Magritte. So you have a choice wether you connect Glorp to the session management of Seaside (like Gemstone does, I do not know exactly) or to the update mechanism of Magritte. This updating of the object is done in the memento. You can give your objects a custom memento class and override here the pull // push methods that update your model. It actually has a commit method that commits the changes into the object. Note the QCMagritte already has a custom memento class, for the AJAX liveness, so I suggest subclassing QCAjaxMemento. Of course, you need to do something in case of a changed object, since you plan on running multiple images, so perhaps on validating the object (also controlled by the memento), you want to give some error messages, forcing the user to reload before committing his changes. I do not know if implementing this into the mementoâs gives you proper performance, as potentially multiple objects are updated by one user action. Regards, Diego
On 22 Sep 2017, at 10:28, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Stephan,
actually the difficult part is how to manage correctly Glorp sessions/connections and update of objects in database. My team is quite sad because QCMagritte and Glorp looks nice but we lack experience glueing both together and could not find any documentation on the subject.
Laurent
Le mer. 20 sept. 2017 à 11:53, stephan <stephan@stack.nl> a écrit :
On 18-09-17 12:22, laurent wrote: We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
I really like describing domain objects with Magritte and using chains of visitors to add cross-cutting concerns like translations, styling and access control. The resulting domain code is very clean and DRY. To map to database/Glorp I would just add properties to the description wherever needed, and add a visitor creating the mappings. We didn't need that as we developed in Pharo and deployed on Gemstone.
At the moment QC generates applications using jQuery, and the live updating needs a round-trip to the server. You might want to substitute that with something that does more client side. I haven't looked in detail at what Johan Brichau is doing.
An open issue is live updates that update each other. That needs automatically calculating dependencies and update order.
I've copied the latest configuration and added #'pharo6.x' but that is not enough.
Stephan
Hello Diego What does QC in QCMagritte stand for? I understand that QCMagritte is an application framework on top of Seaside and Magritte. I found this presentation https://www.slideshare.net/esug/getting-started-with-qcmagritte Is there a home page with more information? Regards Hannes On 9/22/17, Diego Lont <diego.lont@delware.nl> wrote:
Hi Laurent,
I am happy that you like QCMagritte. I wrote quite some parts of it, but it also has been a while since I last used it. I try to support it in my spare time, so I will look into the issue that prevents it from loading into pharo 6.
Here some ideas that I think of,
QCMagritte is a stack based on Seaside and Magritte. So you have a choice wether you connect Glorp to the session management of Seaside (like Gemstone does, I do not know exactly) or to the update mechanism of Magritte.
This updating of the object is done in the memento. You can give your objects a custom memento class and override here the pull // push methods that update your model. It actually has a commit method that commits the changes into the object.
Note the QCMagritte already has a custom memento class, for the AJAX liveness, so I suggest subclassing QCAjaxMemento.
Of course, you need to do something in case of a changed object, since you plan on running multiple images, so perhaps on validating the object (also controlled by the memento), you want to give some error messages, forcing the user to reload before committing his changes.
I do not know if implementing this into the mementoâs gives you proper performance, as potentially multiple objects are updated by one user action.
Regards, Diego
On 22 Sep 2017, at 10:28, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Stephan,
actually the difficult part is how to manage correctly Glorp sessions/connections and update of objects in database. My team is quite sad because QCMagritte and Glorp looks nice but we lack experience glueing both together and could not find any documentation on the subject.
Laurent
Le mer. 20 sept. 2017 à 11:53, stephan <stephan@stack.nl> a écrit :
On 18-09-17 12:22, laurent wrote: We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
I really like describing domain objects with Magritte and using chains of visitors to add cross-cutting concerns like translations, styling and access control. The resulting domain code is very clean and DRY. To map to database/Glorp I would just add properties to the description wherever needed, and add a visitor creating the mappings. We didn't need that as we developed in Pharo and deployed on Gemstone.
At the moment QC generates applications using jQuery, and the live updating needs a round-trip to the server. You might want to substitute that with something that does more client side. I haven't looked in detail at what Johan Brichau is doing.
An open issue is live updates that update each other. That needs automatically calculating dependencies and update order.
I've copied the latest configuration and added #'pharo6.x' but that is not enough.
Stephan
Laurent do you need that we send someone to your place to help? Stef On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:28 AM, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Stephan,
actually the difficult part is how to manage correctly Glorp sessions/connections and update of objects in database. My team is quite sad because QCMagritte and Glorp looks nice but we lack experience glueing both together and could not find any documentation on the subject.
Laurent
Le mer. 20 sept. 2017 à 11:53, stephan <stephan@stack.nl> a écrit :
On 18-09-17 12:22, laurent wrote:
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ? ( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
I really like describing domain objects with Magritte and using chains of visitors to add cross-cutting concerns like translations, styling and access control. The resulting domain code is very clean and DRY. To map to database/Glorp I would just add properties to the description wherever needed, and add a visitor creating the mappings. We didn't need that as we developed in Pharo and deployed on Gemstone. At the moment QC generates applications using jQuery, and the live updating needs a round-trip to the server. You might want to substitute that with something that does more client side. I haven't looked in detail at what Johan Brichau is doing. An open issue is live updates that update each other. That needs automatically calculating dependencies and update order. I've copied the latest configuration and added #'pharo6.x' but that is not enough. Stephan
Thanks Stef, it would be nice, nevertheless I don't think the boss will pay a consultant :( Laurent Le 22 septembre 2017 18:18:32 GMT+02:00, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com> a écrit :
Laurent
do you need that we send someone to your place to help?
Stef
On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:28 AM, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Stephan,
actually the difficult part is how to manage correctly Glorp sessions/connections and update of objects in database. My team is quite sad because QCMagritte and Glorp looks nice but we lack experience glueing both together and could not find any documentation on the subject.
Laurent
Le mer. 20 sept. 2017 à 11:53, stephan <stephan@stack.nl> a écrit :
On 18-09-17 12:22, laurent wrote:
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ? ( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
I really like describing domain objects with Magritte and using chains of visitors to add cross-cutting concerns like translations, styling and access control. The resulting domain code is very clean and DRY. To map to database/Glorp I would just add properties to the description wherever needed, and add a visitor creating the mappings. We didn't need that as we developed in Pharo and deployed on Gemstone. At the moment QC generates applications using jQuery, and the live updating needs a round-trip to the server. You might want to substitute that with something that does more client side. I haven't looked in detail at what Johan Brichau is doing. An open issue is live updates that update each other. That needs automatically calculating dependencies and update order. I've copied the latest configuration and added #'pharo6.x' but that is not enough. Stephan
So if the consortium makes an effort and support the cost would it help. Or is it for nothing? What if you come to visit us? Stef On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Laurent Laffont <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Stef, it would be nice, nevertheless I don't think the boss will pay a consultant :(
Laurent
Le 22 septembre 2017 18:18:32 GMT+02:00, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com> a écrit :
Laurent
do you need that we send someone to your place to help?
Stef
On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:28 AM, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Stephan,
actually the difficult part is how to manage correctly Glorp sessions/connections and update of objects in database. My team is quite sad because QCMagritte and Glorp looks nice but we lack experience glueing both together and could not find any documentation on the subject.
Laurent
Le mer. 20 sept. 2017 à 11:53, stephan <stephan@stack.nl> a écrit :
On 18-09-17 12:22, laurent wrote:
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ? ( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
I really like describing domain objects with Magritte and using chains of visitors to add cross-cutting concerns like translations, styling and access control. The resulting domain code is very clean and DRY. To map to database/Glorp I would just add properties to the description wherever needed, and add a visitor creating the mappings. We didn't need that as we developed in Pharo and deployed on Gemstone. At the moment QC generates applications using jQuery, and the live updating needs a round-trip to the server. You might want to substitute that with something that does more client side. I haven't looked in detail at what Johan Brichau is doing. An open issue is live updates that update each other. That needs automatically calculating dependencies and update order. I've copied the latest configuration and added #'pharo6.x' but that is not enough. Stephan
On 9/18/17, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Maybe you have a look as well at https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express (referenced in another thread). Use Smalltalk as modeling / design tool and generator. Then the run time is done with another technology.
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
There is actually a tutorial included in the framework itself. One you have it loaded, you can start the webpage to localhost:8080 and there you have your tutorial. But this tutorial should be on a external webpage ⦠one of the things on my todo list.
On 22 Sep 2017, at 12:55, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/18/17, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com <mailto:laurent.laffont@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Maybe you have a look as well at https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express <https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express> (referenced in another thread).
Use Smalltalk as modeling / design tool and generator. Then the run time is done with another technology.
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
On 9/22/17, Diego Lont <diego.lont@delware.nl> wrote:
There is actually a tutorial included in the framework itself.
Great!
One you have it loaded, you can start the webpage to localhost:8080 and there you have your tutorial. But this tutorial should be on a external webpage ⦠one of the things on my todo list.
No problem if the tutorial is included in the framework. I just need to know. Where is the repository of QCMagritte?
On 22 Sep 2017, at 12:55, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/18/17, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com <mailto:laurent.laffont@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Maybe you have a look as well at https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express <https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express> (referenced in another thread).
Use Smalltalk as modeling / design tool and generator. Then the run time is done with another technology.
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
The repository can be found on smalltalk hub. Here are also load instruction: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~DiegoLont/QCMagritte/ I just checked loading in pharo 6 (after making a fix) of: Gofer new url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/DiegoLont/QCMagritte/main'; package: 'ConfigurationOfQCMagritte'; load. ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfQCMagritte) project version: #'development') load. (Smalltalk at: #ZnZincServerAdaptor) startOn: 8080 And this allows me to start the tutorial. It seems not all versions load yet, so I need to do some more work on the configuration, but this will be next week. Regards, Diego P.S. QC stands for the company it was originally build for. I do not know exactly where the initials stand for ⦠as it was already an historic name at that time.
On 22 Sep 2017, at 13:35, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/17, Diego Lont <diego.lont@delware.nl <mailto:diego.lont@delware.nl>> wrote:
There is actually a tutorial included in the framework itself.
Great!
One you have it loaded, you can start the webpage to localhost:8080 and there you have your tutorial. But this tutorial should be on a external webpage ⦠one of the things on my todo list.
No problem if the tutorial is included in the framework. I just need to know.
Where is the repository of QCMagritte?
On 22 Sep 2017, at 12:55, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel@gmail.com <mailto:hannes.hirzel@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 9/18/17, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com <mailto:laurent.laffont@gmail.com> <mailto:laurent.laffont@gmail.com <mailto:laurent.laffont@gmail.com>>> wrote:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Maybe you have a look as well at https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express <https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express> <https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express <https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express>> (referenced in another thread).
Use Smalltalk as modeling / design tool and generator. Then the run time is done with another technology.
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
Diego I recently restarted to edit a booklet for Magritte. It would be nice if we can join forces. https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/Booklet-Magritte On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Diego Lont <diego.lont@delware.nl> wrote:
There is actually a tutorial included in the framework itself. One you have it loaded, you can start the webpage to localhost:8080 and there you have your tutorial. But this tutorial should be on a external webpage ⦠one of the things on my todo list.
On 22 Sep 2017, at 12:55, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/18/17, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Maybe you have a look as well at https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express (referenced in another thread).
Use Smalltalk as modeling / design tool and generator. Then the run time is done with another technology.
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
Laurent just for the record, back in 2008-9 the largest web app in south america in terms of users has been developed by extending Magritte and done by Esteban (the business model was bad and it died but not for technical reason). Stef On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com> wrote:
Diego
I recently restarted to edit a booklet for Magritte. It would be nice if we can join forces. https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/Booklet-Magritte
On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Diego Lont <diego.lont@delware.nl> wrote:
There is actually a tutorial included in the framework itself. One you have it loaded, you can start the webpage to localhost:8080 and there you have your tutorial. But this tutorial should be on a external webpage ⦠one of the things on my todo list.
On 22 Sep 2017, at 12:55, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/18/17, laurent <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
it's been a long time :) At work we are currently comparing several technologies to start a business project that will hopefully be used by thousands of people for several years ;)
We need a web stack and we put Pharo & co in the comparative process. My team have strong experience in load-balanced php / mysql deployment that handles millions of records but we are ready to build on something else though MySQL is still a requirement.
Thanks for Garage + Glorp, I can prototype things. I wonder how to handle database schema migrations. With our PHP projects we have versionned PHP scripts that are automatically run given a database revision number ( see http://git.afi-sa.fr/afi/opacce/tree/master/cosmogramme/sql/patch ). What are the practices with Glorp ?
We try QCMagritte and we enjoy what we see so far. What are the best practices to glue Magritte and Glorp together ? Especially when you load-balance requests on several images. Some examples ?
( FYI, I cannot load QCMagritte in a fresh Pharo 6 image ( for #stable version, MADescriptionBuilder missing. For #development versions of Magritte and QCMagritte, QCConfiguration missing ). So actually I use the one built on CI. )
May be you have some other suggestions on a framework you love ?
Maybe you have a look as well at https://railsexpress.quora.com/Pharo-Seaside-Express (referenced in another thread).
Use Smalltalk as modeling / design tool and generator. Then the run time is done with another technology.
Best regards,
Laurent Laffont
participants (9)
-
Diego Lont -
Esteban A. Maringolo -
H. Hirzel -
jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de -
laurent -
Laurent Laffont
-
Richard Sargent -
stephan -
Stephane Ducasse