More or less what I think: testing is necessary and should be pragmatic & fun, not a dogma http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing.html
Testing has become more necessary in the context of Continuous Integration and automated building. You can't have those without test coverage. On the other hand, TDD is rather difficult with tools that doesn't allow you to develop inside the debugger, which is basically everything out there that is not Smalltalk. It's no surprise TDD was born in Smalltalk. I don't agree with the notion of testing the full system, including DBs, I/O, etc. I'd also mock as few as possible. Constraining yourself to test without external dependencies and without mocking (as far as possible) helps you build loosely coupled systems, with a lot of interchangeable parts (pluggables/strategies/etc.). Though as David says, testing is not a religion nor a dogma, and sometime you include a separate set of tests to test the WHOLE layers of your system. But those tests are run separately. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2014-04-23 12:35 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
More or less what I think: testing is necessary and should be pragmatic & fun, not a dogma
http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing.html
TDD is not about testing, it's about development. -- Best regards, Dennis Schetinin 2014-04-23 19:35 GMT+04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
More or less what I think: testing is necessary and should be pragmatic & fun, not a dogma
http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing.html
TDD does not convince me much either, I see it as a convenience but I am not so sure it really worths its time. Maybe because there too few coders out there that would make changes that will massively affect the system, or they wont do some form of testing anyway. I can see the benefit of TDD when you code apps or libs with objects that are highly dependent on each other and you want to make sure you dont brake anything, but I doubt thats a common case. And not even Pharo has convinced me to use tests, though that is the common practice. On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com> wrote:
TDD is not about testing, it's about development.
--
Best regards,
Dennis Schetinin
2014-04-23 19:35 GMT+04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
More or less what I think: testing is necessary and should be pragmatic &
fun, not a dogma
http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing.html
TDD is great if you don't know the domain you're modeling, or if it isn't completely specified. Because you end up having the required functionality completely tested. On the other hand, if you are an expert in the domain, you'll implement features that are beyond the required (initial) specs, so you'll code ahead of the specs, and doing everything TDD will be a burden. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2014-04-23 15:11 GMT-03:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com>:
TDD does not convince me much either, I see it as a convenience but I am not so sure it really worths its time. Maybe because there too few coders out there that would make changes that will massively affect the system, or they wont do some form of testing anyway.
I can see the benefit of TDD when you code apps or libs with objects that are highly dependent on each other and you want to make sure you dont brake anything, but I doubt thats a common case.
And not even Pharo has convinced me to use tests, though that is the common practice.
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com> wrote:
TDD is not about testing, it's about development.
--
Best regards,
Dennis Schetinin
2014-04-23 19:35 GMT+04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
More or less what I think: testing is necessary and should be pragmatic & fun, not a dogma
http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing.html
participants (4)
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Dennis Schetinin -
Esteban A. Maringolo -
kilon alios -
Sven Van Caekenberghe