I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting. I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this. Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way? On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one? And what does realize do? Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera. Just my two cents. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi KMO thanks for your feedback. Calypso is still an enfant and this is IMPORTANT that people tell what they do not like so that we can improve. Stef On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 2:26 PM, kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com> wrote:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting.
I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one?
And what does realize do?
Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera.
Just my two cents.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
Calypso is still an enfant and this is IMPORTANT that people tell what they do not like so that we can improve.
A few more impressions now that I've been using Calypso as my default browser: - Overall really enjoying it! - When browsing a class from its own package, and then adding an extension protocol via '*...' in "New protocol" context menu, the dialog closes without objection, but then the new protocol doesn't seem to exist. I had to create a dummy protocol and then DND the methods into the package-to-be-extended. - When Calypso is set to be the default browser, it would be helpful if the World menu item changed from "Calypso Browser" to "Nautilus" - Lack of word wrapping is becoming teeeeeeedious ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
can you explain lack of word wrapping On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
Calypso is still an enfant and this is IMPORTANT that people tell what they do not like so that we can improve.
A few more impressions now that I've been using Calypso as my default browser: - Overall really enjoying it! - When browsing a class from its own package, and then adding an extension protocol via '*...' in "New protocol" context menu, the dialog closes without objection, but then the new protocol doesn't seem to exist. I had to create a dummy protocol and then DND the methods into the package-to-be-extended. - When Calypso is set to be the default browser, it would be helpful if the World menu item changed from "Calypso Browser" to "Nautilus" - Lack of word wrapping is becoming teeeeeeedious
----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi Sean 2017-09-23 19:57 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:
Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
Calypso is still an enfant and this is IMPORTANT that people tell what they do not like so that we can improve.
A few more impressions now that I've been using Calypso as my default browser: - Overall really enjoying it! - When browsing a class from its own package, and then adding an extension protocol via '*...' in "New protocol" context menu, the dialog closes without objection, but then the new protocol doesn't seem to exist. I had to create a dummy protocol and then DND the methods into the package-to-be-extended.
In Calypso you should not create protocols with star. In method editor status bar there is explicit checkbox "extension" to specify external package for the method. We should move away from star convention and work directly with packages. Calypso gives you the tools for this. But I will add special notification when user creates new protocol with star. I think it will help "old" Pharo users to adopt. https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues/96
- When Calypso is set to be the default browser, it would be helpful if the World menu item changed from "Calypso Browser" to "Nautilus" - Lack of word wrapping is becoming teeeeeeedious
----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Denis Kudriashov wrote
In Calypso you should not create protocols with star. In method editor status bar there is explicit checkbox "extension" to specify external package for the method. We should move away from star convention and work directly with packages. Calypso gives you the tools for this.
Aha! Cool and agreed. However, when I check the box on an existing method and select a package, the method doesn't seem to move to the over package :/ ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
2017-09-26 3:26 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:
Denis Kudriashov wrote
In Calypso you should not create protocols with star. In method editor status bar there is explicit checkbox "extension" to specify external package for the method. We should move away from star convention and work directly with packages. Calypso gives you the tools for this.
Aha! Cool and agreed. However, when I check the box on an existing method and select a package, the method doesn't seem to move to the over package :/
It needs more love. Now these options are working like code editing - you need accept changes of the method. And this logic has missing parts: - cmd+s do not work when status bar tools are in focus. - you should always make source code dirty to accept changes. - method editor does not mark tab as dirty when you edit method only with status bar tools. And it does not prevent browser closing in that case.
----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
In fact I'm not sure that continuing to use the * is not a good idea. On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Sean
2017-09-23 19:57 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:
Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
Calypso is still an enfant and this is IMPORTANT that people tell what they do not like so that we can improve.
A few more impressions now that I've been using Calypso as my default browser: - Overall really enjoying it! - When browsing a class from its own package, and then adding an extension protocol via '*...' in "New protocol" context menu, the dialog closes without objection, but then the new protocol doesn't seem to exist. I had to create a dummy protocol and then DND the methods into the package-to-be-extended.
In Calypso you should not create protocols with star. In method editor status bar there is explicit checkbox "extension" to specify external package for the method. We should move away from star convention and work directly with packages. Calypso gives you the tools for this.
But I will add special notification when user creates new protocol with star. I think it will help "old" Pharo users to adopt. https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues/96
- When Calypso is set to be the default browser, it would be helpful if the World menu item changed from "Calypso Browser" to "Nautilus" - Lack of word wrapping is becoming teeeeeeedious
----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi Sean 2017-09-24 14:46 GMT+02:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com>:
Hi Sean
2017-09-23 19:57 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:
Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
Calypso is still an enfant and this is IMPORTANT that people tell what they do not like so that we can improve.
A few more impressions now that I've been using Calypso as my default browser: - Overall really enjoying it! - When browsing a class from its own package, and then adding an extension protocol via '*...' in "New protocol" context menu, the dialog closes without objection, but then the new protocol doesn't seem to exist. I had to create a dummy protocol and then DND the methods into the package-to-be-extended.
In Calypso you should not create protocols with star. In method editor status bar there is explicit checkbox "extension" to specify external package for the method. We should move away from star convention and work directly with packages. Calypso gives you the tools for this.
But I will add special notification when user creates new protocol with star. I think it will help "old" Pharo users to adopt. https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues/96
It is done in latest stable version. In addition there is new behavior when user selects extended class (which is grey in class list): - extending package group is added to the method group list. It is placed just after "extensions" group. - extending package group is selected by default which shows only extended methods instead of all method - automatic selection of extended class side: - if instance side is extended then browser switches to instance side when you select it - if class side is extended then browser switches to class side when you select it - if both sides are extended there will be two classes in class list: "AClass" and "AClass class" It means that now when you select extended class the browser will show "expected" extended methods. You do not need anymore to scroll protocol list to find current package. And you do not need to guess where extension is actually defined: in instance side or in class side.
- When Calypso is set to be the default browser, it would be helpful if the World menu item changed from "Calypso Browser" to "Nautilus" - Lack of word wrapping is becoming teeeeeeedious
----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi 2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting.
Any feedback is very important.
I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.
Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.
On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one?
Now it is more like a stub. There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. I think we should also implement Metacello backend. Anyway project mode will become default view in future.
And what does realize do?
It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.
Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera.
Yes, I will add it. You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. Thank's for you feedback.
Just my two cents.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Thanks for the information. I'm sure Calypso is going to be brilliant. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example). Tim
On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com <mailto:voxkmp@gmail.com>>: I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting.
Any feedback is very important.
I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.
Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.
On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one?
Now it is more like a stub. There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. I think we should also implement Metacello backend. Anyway project mode will become default view in future.
And what does realize do?
It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.
Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera.
Yes, I will add it.
You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. <https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.> Thank's for you feedback.
Just my two cents.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html>
Hi Tim. No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this 2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example).
Tim
On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting.
Any feedback is very important.
I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.
Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.
On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one?
Now it is more like a stub. There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. I think we should also implement Metacello backend. Anyway project mode will become default view in future.
And what does realize do?
It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.
Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera.
Yes, I will add it.
You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/ dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. Thank's for you feedback.
Just my two cents.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Ah - you are right that rename is in there (Iâd never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named âSource Code Refactoringâ menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right? Tim
On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tim.
No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this
2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works <mailto:tim@testit.works>>: Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example).
Tim
On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com <mailto:dionisiydk@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi
2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com <mailto:voxkmp@gmail.com>>: I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting.
Any feedback is very important.
I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.
Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.
On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one?
Now it is more like a stub. There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. I think we should also implement Metacello backend. Anyway project mode will become default view in future.
And what does realize do?
It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.
Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera.
Yes, I will add it.
You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. <https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.> Thank's for you feedback.
Just my two cents.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html>
BTW - Is it intended that when you save a method in a Calypso tab, it shifts focus to the first non saved tab? I find this quite confusing as suddenly I'm not where I thought I was and wonder if I saved my method? This said, I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt. Tim Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone
On 3 Sep 2017, at 22:25, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Ah - you are right that rename is in there (Iâd never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named âSource Code Refactoringâ menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right?
Tim
On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tim.
No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this
2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example).
Tim
On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting.
Any feedback is very important.
I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.
Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.
On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one?
Now it is more like a stub. There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. I think we should also implement Metacello backend. Anyway project mode will become default view in future.
And what does realize do?
It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.
Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera.
Yes, I will add it.
You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. Thank's for you feedback.
Just my two cents.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi Tim. Sorry for late response. During Esug I am a bit out of mails. About saving method problem it is definitely a bug. Thank's for the report. About source code refactoring: Supporting source code commands was easy to do with suggestions. In fact text editor menu is still working old way. That's why some extra source code menus of Nautilus is not supported in Calypso. But general Idea is to redo all these commands with Commander. So it is todo. It is not complex task. And it will be available soon. Now it is already possible to define shortcuts for missing source code refactorings. So if you need some concrete command we can add it very fast using shortcut . 2017-09-06 1:14 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works>:
BTW - Is it intended that when you save a method in a Calypso tab, it shifts focus to the first non saved tab? I find this quite confusing as suddenly I'm not where I thought I was and wonder if I saved my method?
This said, I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone On 3 Sep 2017, at 22:25, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Ah - you are right that rename is in there (Iâd never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named âSource Code Refactoringâ menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right?
Tim
On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tim.
No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this
2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example).
Tim
On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting.
Any feedback is very important.
I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.
Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.
On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one?
Now it is more like a stub. There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. I think we should also implement Metacello backend. Anyway project mode will become default view in future.
And what does realize do?
It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.
Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera.
Yes, I will add it.
You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dio nisiydk/Calypso/issues. Thank's for you feedback.
Just my two cents.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hey Denis - I didn't mean to interrupt your ESUG (I should have mentioned it was something to follow up on afterwards). Enjoy it and help lots of ideas. Should I raise a bug for the saving issue in fogbugz? I'll have to look at how you add define shortcuts in Calypso as I'm not familiar with that bit - so I'm using both browsers at the moment. Tim Sent from my iPhone
On 6 Sep 2017, at 10:45, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tim.
Sorry for late response. During Esug I am a bit out of mails.
About saving method problem it is definitely a bug. Thank's for the report.
About source code refactoring: Supporting source code commands was easy to do with suggestions. In fact text editor menu is still working old way. That's why some extra source code menus of Nautilus is not supported in Calypso. But general Idea is to redo all these commands with Commander. So it is todo. It is not complex task. And it will be available soon. Now it is already possible to define shortcuts for missing source code refactorings. So if you need some concrete command we can add it very fast using shortcut .
2017-09-06 1:14 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works>:
BTW - Is it intended that when you save a method in a Calypso tab, it shifts focus to the first non saved tab? I find this quite confusing as suddenly I'm not where I thought I was and wonder if I saved my method?
This said, I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
On 3 Sep 2017, at 22:25, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Ah - you are right that rename is in there (Iâd never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named âSource Code Refactoringâ menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right?
Tim
On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tim.
No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this
2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example).
Tim
On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting.
Any feedback is very important.
I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.
Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.
On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one?
Now it is more like a stub. There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. I think we should also implement Metacello backend. Anyway project mode will become default view in future.
And what does realize do?
It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.
Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera.
Yes, I will add it.
You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. Thank's for you feedback.
Just my two cents.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Hi Tim. 2017-09-06 12:54 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works>:
Hey Denis - I didn't mean to interrupt your ESUG (I should have mentioned it was something to follow up on afterwards). Enjoy it and help lots of ideas.
Should I raise a bug for the saving issue in fogbugz?
Yes, but on github https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues. Now it is not necessary, I will fix it anyway (it is not a hidden bug). But explicit ticket will allow you to be notified when it will be done. And that's the nice thing about issue trackers.
I'll have to look at how you add define shortcuts in Calypso as I'm not familiar with that bit - so I'm using both browsers at the moment.
I will write blog post about it. Now for example look at SycRenameMessageCommand class>>sourceCodeShortcutActivator and SycRenameVariableCommand class>>sourceCodeShortcutActivator.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On 6 Sep 2017, at 10:45, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tim.
Sorry for late response. During Esug I am a bit out of mails.
About saving method problem it is definitely a bug. Thank's for the report.
About source code refactoring: Supporting source code commands was easy to do with suggestions. In fact text editor menu is still working old way. That's why some extra source code menus of Nautilus is not supported in Calypso. But general Idea is to redo all these commands with Commander. So it is todo. It is not complex task. And it will be available soon. Now it is already possible to define shortcuts for missing source code refactorings. So if you need some concrete command we can add it very fast using shortcut .
2017-09-06 1:14 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works>:
BTW - Is it intended that when you save a method in a Calypso tab, it shifts focus to the first non saved tab? I find this quite confusing as suddenly I'm not where I thought I was and wonder if I saved my method?
This said, I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone On 3 Sep 2017, at 22:25, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Ah - you are right that rename is in there (Iâd never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named âSource Code Refactoringâ menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right?
Tim
On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tim.
No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this
2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you canât rename a temp for example).
Tim
On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods) as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but some things I find off-putting.
Any feedback is very important.
I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers. So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request. Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.
Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.
On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you create one?
Now it is more like a stub. There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet. I think we should also implement Metacello backend. Anyway project mode will become default view in future.
And what does realize do?
It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses). I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.
Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and /move to class side/ et cetera.
Yes, I will add it.
You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dio nisiydk/Calypso/issues. Thank's for you feedback.
Just my two cents.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
If Tim had not posted this comment - "I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt".- I would never have known that it was possible to do this. Since I always save my methods before moving on I had never experienced this behaviour. I think this is an another instance of Calypso violating "the law of least surprise". Just like the appearance/disappearance of the "new object" tab, this behaviour was totally unexpected by me. I think it is wonderful that you can move on to a new method before you save the one you are editing - but surely the natural way of achieving this is to make the tabs work more like tabs ina standard text editor. You should be able to have as many methods opened in tabs - saved or unsaved - as you want. Why not have a system where if you CTRL or SHIFT click on a method it adds that method to the set of tabs in the editing area? That's what I would have expected all along. When you see a set of tabs in a row you assume that you can add to them. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
2017-09-08 14:37 GMT+02:00 kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com>:
If Tim had not posted this comment - "I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt".- I would never have known that it was possible to do this. Since I always save my methods before moving on I had never experienced this behaviour.
I think this is an another instance of Calypso violating "the law of least surprise". Just like the appearance/disappearance of the "new object" tab, this behaviour was totally unexpected by me.
I think it is wonderful that you can move on to a new method before you save the one you are editing - but surely the natural way of achieving this is to make the tabs work more like tabs ina standard text editor. You should be able to have as many methods opened in tabs - saved or unsaved - as you want. Why not have a system where if you CTRL or SHIFT click on a method it adds that method to the set of tabs in the editing area?
That's what I would have expected all along. When you see a set of tabs in a row you assume that you can add to them.
Manual tabs are in todo. How you would avoid auto tabs behaviour? Do you want always manually open/close tabs? In that case for example switching from one class to another class will open six tabs if nobody close old ones. The current behaviour is trying to be close to single source pane behaviour of old browsers.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
You say The current behaviour is trying to be close to single source pane behaviour of old browsers. I think that's a bit of the problem. For me, nautilus is a single source pane browser and it looks like a single source pane browser. Calypso looks like something else - it looks like a typical tabbed editor. So it's behaviour does not march its look. That's what's confusing. I don't know what is the best behaviour for the tabs - but I think I would prefer always manually opening/closing tabs rather than the auto tabs behaviour - that way I would feel more in control. Other people's mileage may vary. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
participants (5)
-
Denis Kudriashov -
kmo -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Stephane Ducasse -
Tim Mackinnon