Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0
One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons. See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-i... for a picture. SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example". This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study. Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking). https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side-initialize-methods-should... Both issues are already integrated.
Hi Torsten, Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go. Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention? Cheers, Doru On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons.
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-i... for a picture.
SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example".
This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study.
Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking).
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side-initialize-methods-should...
Both issues are already integrated.
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
very good feature that I was completely unaware of. I have actually examples in my Ephestos project that are at class side but I use ex instead of example. This will come very handy for my users thanks :) On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Torsten,
Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go.
Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention?
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons.
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-i... for a picture.
SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example".
This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study.
Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking).
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side-initialize-methods-should...
Both issues are already integrated.
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
You are welcome. You should expect more in this direction. Doru On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:02 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:
very good feature that I was completely unaware of. I have actually examples in my Ephestos project that are at class side but I use ex instead of example. This will come very handy for my users thanks :)
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Torsten,
Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go.
Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention?
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons.
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-i... for a picture.
SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example".
This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study.
Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking).
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side-initialize-methods-should...
Both issues are already integrated.
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Hi Tudor, that should be easy now: look at CompiledMethod>>#isExampleMethod which can be adopted as needed. Checking for the <example> pragma could be done this way: self pragmas anySatisfy: [:pragma | pragma keyword = #example ] but we should think first if this is enough. I already proposed to not only annotate with a pragma <example> but additionally give a category. Like this: <example: 'Graphics'> <example: 'Network'> This way we can easily build an example browser for our users where people can go through their point of interest and browse the examples. Maybe we should also rethink pragmas (in Pharo 5.0?) in general to be more Smalltalk like:   <Example category: 'Graphics'> where Example is a real class in the system (!). One can even make it more explicit then  <ExampleCategory graphics> with ExampleCategory(class)>>graphics returning a translateable string. People can add own categories and one easily knows about already available ones. Now that classes can have properties in Pharo 4.0 already I would like to see a unification for methods and classes here (with the general concept of an "Annotation" in our metamodel). In my opinion a method pragma is just a special form of annotating a method. And annotating classes is usefull as well (for instance you want to annotate a class with the appropriate Table name in an ORM framework, ...) A comment (in a method or in a class) is also nothing more than a special annotation. A class/method category is also an annotation. If unified a method or a class could be in one or more categories. Even a break point for an expression is IMHO just an annotation. Bye T. Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014 um 10:43 Uhr Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor@tudorgirba.com> An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Cc: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0 Hi Torsten,  Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go.  Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention?  Cheers, Doru    On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons. See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus[https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus] for a picture. SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE       AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example". This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study. Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking). https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side-initialize-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus[https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side-initialize-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus] Both issues are already integrated.    -- www.tudorgirba.com[http://www.tudorgirba.com]  "Every thing has its own flow"
Hi! I have doubt that #example: will be enough in the case of Roassal. Having a code example browser is indeed important and having a descent way to search for the examples is also important. I am thinking to stick to #example and infer some categories from the source code (e.g., if the method contains a Zinc class, then it may be categorized in network). Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 à 7:38, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> a écrit :
Hi Tudor,
that should be easy now: look at CompiledMethod>>#isExampleMethod which can be adopted as needed.
Checking for the <example> pragma could be done this way:
self pragmas anySatisfy: [:pragma | pragma keyword = #example ]
but we should think first if this is enough.
I already proposed to not only annotate with a pragma <example> but additionally give a category. Like this:
<example: 'Graphics'> <example: 'Network'>
This way we can easily build an example browser for our users where people can go through their point of interest and browse the examples.
Maybe we should also rethink pragmas (in Pharo 5.0?) in general to be more Smalltalk like:
<Example category: 'Graphics'>
where Example is a real class in the system (!). One can even make it more explicit then
<ExampleCategory graphics>
with ExampleCategory(class)>>graphics returning a translateable string. People can add own categories and one easily knows about already available ones.
Now that classes can have properties in Pharo 4.0 already I would like to see a unification for methods and classes here (with the general concept of an "Annotation" in our metamodel).
In my opinion a method pragma is just a special form of annotating a method.
And annotating classes is usefull as well (for instance you want to annotate a class with the appropriate Table name in an ORM framework, ...)
A comment (in a method or in a class) is also nothing more than a special annotation. A class/method category is also an annotation. If unified a method or a class could be in one or more categories. Even a break point for an expression is IMHO just an annotation.
Bye T.
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014 um 10:43 Uhr Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor@tudorgirba.com> An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Cc: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0
Hi Torsten,
Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go.
Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention?
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons.
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus[https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus] for a picture.
SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example".
This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study.
Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking).
Both issues are already integrated.
-- www.tudorgirba.com[http://www.tudorgirba.com]
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi all, by principle, I'd be against extending so much the pragmas... from a design point of view they look like #defines and macros, that is an additional language to learn, without a correct support of the tools (no debug on pragmas, non-obvious behavior triggers, search for pragma users difficult, not documented). Alexandre, your idea of infering properties from the source code looks a lot more interesting (and with a lot more potential). Thierry Le 22/10/2014 19:38, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
Hi!
I have doubt that #example: will be enough in the case of Roassal. Having a code example browser is indeed important and having a descent way to search for the examples is also important. I am thinking to stick to #example and infer some categories from the source code (e.g., if the method contains a Zinc class, then it may be categorized in network).
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 à 7:38, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> a écrit :
Hi Tudor,
that should be easy now: look at CompiledMethod>>#isExampleMethod which can be adopted as needed.
Checking for the <example> pragma could be done this way:
self pragmas anySatisfy: [:pragma | pragma keyword = #example ]
but we should think first if this is enough.
I already proposed to not only annotate with a pragma <example> but additionally give a category. Like this:
<example: 'Graphics'> <example: 'Network'>
This way we can easily build an example browser for our users where people can go through their point of interest and browse the examples.
Maybe we should also rethink pragmas (in Pharo 5.0?) in general to be more Smalltalk like:
<Example category: 'Graphics'>
where Example is a real class in the system (!). One can even make it more explicit then
<ExampleCategory graphics>
with ExampleCategory(class)>>graphics returning a translateable string. People can add own categories and one easily knows about already available ones.
Now that classes can have properties in Pharo 4.0 already I would like to see a unification for methods and classes here (with the general concept of an "Annotation" in our metamodel).
In my opinion a method pragma is just a special form of annotating a method.
And annotating classes is usefull as well (for instance you want to annotate a class with the appropriate Table name in an ORM framework, ...)
A comment (in a method or in a class) is also nothing more than a special annotation. A class/method category is also an annotation. If unified a method or a class could be in one or more categories. Even a break point for an expression is IMHO just an annotation.
Bye T.
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014 um 10:43 Uhr Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor@tudorgirba.com> An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Cc: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0
Hi Torsten,
Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go.
Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention?
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons.
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus[https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus] for a picture.
SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example".
This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study.
Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking).
Both issues are already integrated.
-- www.tudorgirba.com[http://www.tudorgirba.com]
"Every thing has its own flow"
I am also not a big fan of using pragmas. To me, it looks like an ad hoc approach to have examples close to the class. In the same spirit: Why not having tests in the same class? Would it not be cool? Of course not. In Roassal we have a class for examples (similar to TestCase). Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 à 14:51, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com> a écrit :
Hi all,
by principle, I'd be against extending so much the pragmas... from a design point of view they look like #defines and macros, that is an additional language to learn, without a correct support of the tools (no debug on pragmas, non-obvious behavior triggers, search for pragma users difficult, not documented).
Alexandre, your idea of infering properties from the source code looks a lot more interesting (and with a lot more potential).
Thierry
Le 22/10/2014 19:38, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
Hi!
I have doubt that #example: will be enough in the case of Roassal. Having a code example browser is indeed important and having a descent way to search for the examples is also important. I am thinking to stick to #example and infer some categories from the source code (e.g., if the method contains a Zinc class, then it may be categorized in network).
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 à 7:38, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> a écrit :
Hi Tudor,
that should be easy now: look at CompiledMethod>>#isExampleMethod which can be adopted as needed.
Checking for the <example> pragma could be done this way:
self pragmas anySatisfy: [:pragma | pragma keyword = #example ]
but we should think first if this is enough.
I already proposed to not only annotate with a pragma <example> but additionally give a category. Like this:
<example: 'Graphics'> <example: 'Network'>
This way we can easily build an example browser for our users where people can go through their point of interest and browse the examples.
Maybe we should also rethink pragmas (in Pharo 5.0?) in general to be more Smalltalk like:
<Example category: 'Graphics'>
where Example is a real class in the system (!). One can even make it more explicit then
<ExampleCategory graphics>
with ExampleCategory(class)>>graphics returning a translateable string. People can add own categories and one easily knows about already available ones.
Now that classes can have properties in Pharo 4.0 already I would like to see a unification for methods and classes here (with the general concept of an "Annotation" in our metamodel).
In my opinion a method pragma is just a special form of annotating a method.
And annotating classes is usefull as well (for instance you want to annotate a class with the appropriate Table name in an ORM framework, ...)
A comment (in a method or in a class) is also nothing more than a special annotation. A class/method category is also an annotation. If unified a method or a class could be in one or more categories. Even a break point for an expression is IMHO just an annotation.
Bye T.
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014 um 10:43 Uhr Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor@tudorgirba.com> An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Cc: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0
Hi Torsten,
Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go.
Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention?
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons.
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus[https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus] for a picture.
SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example".
This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study.
Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking).
Both issues are already integrated.
-- www.tudorgirba.com[http://www.tudorgirba.com]
"Every thing has its own flow"
I agree with Thierry but I disagree with Alex :) What is cool is that when you browse a widget class that you get all the examples for this class. Stef
I am also not a big fan of using pragmas. To me, it looks like an ad hoc approach to have examples close to the class. In the same spirit: Why not having tests in the same class? Would it not be cool? Of course not. In Roassal we have a class for examples (similar to TestCase).
Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 à 14:51, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com> a écrit :
Hi all,
by principle, I'd be against extending so much the pragmas... from a design point of view they look like #defines and macros, that is an additional language to learn, without a correct support of the tools (no debug on pragmas, non-obvious behavior triggers, search for pragma users difficult, not documented).
Alexandre, your idea of infering properties from the source code looks a lot more interesting (and with a lot more potential).
Thierry
Le 22/10/2014 19:38, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
Hi!
I have doubt that #example: will be enough in the case of Roassal. Having a code example browser is indeed important and having a descent way to search for the examples is also important. I am thinking to stick to #example and infer some categories from the source code (e.g., if the method contains a Zinc class, then it may be categorized in network).
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 à 7:38, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> a écrit :
Hi Tudor,
that should be easy now: look at CompiledMethod>>#isExampleMethod which can be adopted as needed.
Checking for the <example> pragma could be done this way:
self pragmas anySatisfy: [:pragma | pragma keyword = #example ]
but we should think first if this is enough.
I already proposed to not only annotate with a pragma <example> but additionally give a category. Like this:
<example: 'Graphics'> <example: 'Network'>
This way we can easily build an example browser for our users where people can go through their point of interest and browse the examples.
Maybe we should also rethink pragmas (in Pharo 5.0?) in general to be more Smalltalk like:
<Example category: 'Graphics'>
where Example is a real class in the system (!). One can even make it more explicit then
<ExampleCategory graphics>
with ExampleCategory(class)>>graphics returning a translateable string. People can add own categories and one easily knows about already available ones.
Now that classes can have properties in Pharo 4.0 already I would like to see a unification for methods and classes here (with the general concept of an "Annotation" in our metamodel).
In my opinion a method pragma is just a special form of annotating a method.
And annotating classes is usefull as well (for instance you want to annotate a class with the appropriate Table name in an ORM framework, ...)
A comment (in a method or in a class) is also nothing more than a special annotation. A class/method category is also an annotation. If unified a method or a class could be in one or more categories. Even a break point for an expression is IMHO just an annotation.
Bye T.
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014 um 10:43 Uhr Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor@tudorgirba.com> An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Cc: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0
Hi Torsten,
Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go.
Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention?
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons.
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus[https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus] for a picture.
SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example".
This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study.
Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking).
Both issues are already integrated.
-- www.tudorgirba.com[http://www.tudorgirba.com]
"Every thing has its own flow"
Le 22/10/2014 21:14, stepharo a écrit :
I agree with Thierry but I disagree with Alex :) What is cool is that when you browse a widget class that you get all the examples for this class.
I use browse class refs for that. Works on average pretty well; if it doesn't I throw away the code and reuse something else ;) Thierry
Stef
I am also not a big fan of using pragmas. To me, it looks like an ad hoc approach to have examples close to the class. In the same spirit: Why not having tests in the same class? Would it not be cool? Of course not. In Roassal we have a class for examples (similar to TestCase).
Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 à 14:51, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com> a écrit :
Hi all,
by principle, I'd be against extending so much the pragmas... from a design point of view they look like #defines and macros, that is an additional language to learn, without a correct support of the tools (no debug on pragmas, non-obvious behavior triggers, search for pragma users difficult, not documented).
Alexandre, your idea of infering properties from the source code looks a lot more interesting (and with a lot more potential).
Thierry
Le 22/10/2014 19:38, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
Hi!
I have doubt that #example: will be enough in the case of Roassal. Having a code example browser is indeed important and having a descent way to search for the examples is also important. I am thinking to stick to #example and infer some categories from the source code (e.g., if the method contains a Zinc class, then it may be categorized in network).
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 à 7:38, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> a écrit :
Hi Tudor,
that should be easy now: look at CompiledMethod>>#isExampleMethod which can be adopted as needed.
Checking for the <example> pragma could be done this way:
self pragmas anySatisfy: [:pragma | pragma keyword = #example ]
but we should think first if this is enough.
I already proposed to not only annotate with a pragma <example> but additionally give a category. Like this:
<example: 'Graphics'> <example: 'Network'>
This way we can easily build an example browser for our users where people can go through their point of interest and browse the examples.
Maybe we should also rethink pragmas (in Pharo 5.0?) in general to be more Smalltalk like:
<Example category: 'Graphics'>
where Example is a real class in the system (!). One can even make it more explicit then
<ExampleCategory graphics>
with ExampleCategory(class)>>graphics returning a translateable string. People can add own categories and one easily knows about already available ones.
Now that classes can have properties in Pharo 4.0 already I would like to see a unification for methods and classes here (with the general concept of an "Annotation" in our metamodel).
In my opinion a method pragma is just a special form of annotating a method.
And annotating classes is usefull as well (for instance you want to annotate a class with the appropriate Table name in an ORM framework, ...)
A comment (in a method or in a class) is also nothing more than a special annotation. A class/method category is also an annotation. If unified a method or a class could be in one or more categories. Even a break point for an expression is IMHO just an annotation.
Bye T.
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014 um 10:43 Uhr Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor@tudorgirba.com> An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Cc: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0
Hi Torsten,
Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go.
Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention?
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons.
for a picture.
SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example".
This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study.
Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking).
Both issues are already integrated.
-- www.tudorgirba.com[http://www.tudorgirba.com]
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi, I also disagree with Alex. Examples will become tests (see the work of Markus Gaelli and Adrian Kuhn) and they should be casually connected with the class and intention they test or provide example for. The other thing is that examples should be composable via code. And of course, they should be browsable. They will be close to the class by default, but it does not mean that in the class will be the only way. For example, we can well imagine having helper classes for holding examples, but most classes would not need that I think. As for pragmas, they are a better mechanism for describing intent than a method naming convention is. If nothing else, it lets us freedom in naming the method. It's true that at this point, pragmas are hard to browse, but this will not remain like this for long :) Cheers, Doru On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:14 PM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
I agree with Thierry but I disagree with Alex :) What is cool is that when you browse a widget class that you get all the examples for this class.
Stef
I am also not a big fan of using pragmas. To me, it looks like an ad hoc
approach to have examples close to the class. In the same spirit: Why not having tests in the same class? Would it not be cool? Of course not. In Roassal we have a class for examples (similar to TestCase).
Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 Ã 14:51, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com> a
écrit :
Hi all,
by principle, I'd be against extending so much the pragmas... from a design point of view they look like #defines and macros, that is an additional language to learn, without a correct support of the tools (no debug on pragmas, non-obvious behavior triggers, search for pragma users difficult, not documented).
Alexandre, your idea of infering properties from the source code looks a lot more interesting (and with a lot more potential).
Thierry
Le 22/10/2014 19:38, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
Hi!
I have doubt that #example: will be enough in the case of Roassal. Having a code example browser is indeed important and having a descent way to search for the examples is also important. I am thinking to stick to #example and infer some categories from the source code (e.g., if the method contains a Zinc class, then it may be categorized in network).
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22-10-2014 à 7:38, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> a écrit :
Hi Tudor,
that should be easy now: look at CompiledMethod>>#isExampleMethod which can be adopted as needed.
Checking for the <example> pragma could be done this way:
self pragmas anySatisfy: [:pragma | pragma keyword = #example ]
but we should think first if this is enough.
I already proposed to not only annotate with a pragma <example> but additionally give a category. Like this:
<example: 'Graphics'> <example: 'Network'>
This way we can easily build an example browser for our users where people can go through their point of interest and browse the examples.
Maybe we should also rethink pragmas (in Pharo 5.0?) in general to be more Smalltalk like:
<Example category: 'Graphics'>
where Example is a real class in the system (!). One can even make it more explicit then
<ExampleCategory graphics>
with ExampleCategory(class)>>graphics returning a translateable string. People can add own categories and one easily knows about already available ones.
Now that classes can have properties in Pharo 4.0 already I would like to see a unification for methods and classes here (with the general concept of an "Annotation" in our metamodel).
In my opinion a method pragma is just a special form of annotating a method.
And annotating classes is usefull as well (for instance you want to annotate a class with the appropriate Table name in an ORM framework, ...)
A comment (in a method or in a class) is also nothing more than a special annotation. A class/method category is also an annotation. If unified a method or a class could be in one or more categories. Even a break point for an expression is IMHO just an annotation.
Bye T.
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014 um 10:43 Uhr Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor@tudorgirba.com> An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Cc: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0
Hi Torsten,
Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go.
Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention?
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons.
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods- should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus[https://pharo. fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be- runnable-in-Nautilus] for a picture.
SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example".
This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study.
Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking).
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side- initialize-methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus[https:// pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side-initialize- methods-should-be-runnable-in-Nautilus]
Both issues are already integrated.
-- www.tudorgirba.com[http://www.tudorgirba.com]
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Hi Doru, Le 22/10/2014 23:03, Tudor Girba a écrit :
Hi,
As for pragmas, they are a better mechanism for describing intent than a method naming convention is. If nothing else, it lets us freedom in naming the method.
And they add another programming language on top of another, and in most cases are redundant with the method name and protocol. i.e. exampleThis has pragma <example> testThat has pragma <test> Simply because for the method name to be suitable, it has to convey intent one way or another. I can understand if you come and tell me that the pragma is to annotate for stuff that the compiler can't deduce, such as the #openmp pragmas. But I can't say that bringing in that kind of stuff would mean progress ;)
It's true that at this point, pragmas are hard to browse, but this will not remain like this for long :)
Tools may help to overcome limitations of pragmas, yes ;) But this sounds like because pragmas may not be that good to start with :) Thierry
participants (6)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
kilon alios -
stepharo -
Thierry Goubier -
Torsten Bergmann -
Tudor Girba