Hi Stef, Yes, my bailing on a more standard squeak project distribution solution is due to a few factors... 1 - environment confusion between Pharo and Squeak. I choose squeak due it is the native VMMaker and vm Dev environment. 2 - in squeak, the Cryptography and SqueakSource projects are inaccessible to me, as I can't reset my access. 3 - I haven't figured out next-gen git-based solutions. Prefer 1 file per class git mgmt but whatever. MCZs in git's fine but I chose to limit admin tasks and drive some actual coding in my time mgmt. I think these cover my choices. I do like dropbox cloud storage lots. What is the recommended squeak environmental solution? Is it a SqueakSource project? Which MCZ storage solution would be best? Thank you. --- robert

On Dec 3, 2015, at 3:10 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:

Hi robert

thanks but I do not get why you use dropbox and not a project on smalltalkhub?

Stef

Le 1/12/15 17:53, Robert Withers a écrit :

...

Pharo Pholks,

Is the spirit of #GivingTuesday, I am publishing my secure session code in progress. Some changes to pharo's internals will allow this there, though I am currently doing my work in Squeak.

Cheers, Robert

-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: evolutions of squeakelib & crypto (Reed Solomon) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 11:44:03 -0500 From: Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> To: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org, Discussion of E and other capability languages <e-lang@mail.eros-os.org>

Here is a newer version (201) with a protocol change to remove all tcpIds from the rendezvous.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7mgfglwu3e4bf4j/SqueakElib-rww.201.mcz?dl=0

- Robert

On 12/01/2015 07:37 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

This version of the Cryptography package has beginnings of ReedSolomon encoding.

The rendezvous is separated into an OperationProtocol and a StartupProtocol and the message pipeline of the session layer of SqueakElib has been completely rewritten and LayeredProtocols have been folded in. Please look at ElibVatTPDataTestCase for an example.

Cryptography: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z9dux2goimej79e/Cryptography-rww.40.mcz?dl=0 SqueakElib: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5yvkl3df89uyjnh/SqueakElib-rww.200.mcz?dl=0

In the spirit of #GivingTuesday, Robert

On 12/03/2015 06:30 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

On 03-12-15 09:34, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Hi Stef,

Yes, my bailing on a more standard squeak project distribution solution is due to a few factors...

1 - environment confusion between Pharo and Squeak. I choose squeak due it is the native VMMaker and vm Dev environment. 2 - in squeak, the Cryptography and SqueakSource projects are inaccessible to me, as I can't reset my access. 3 - I haven't figured out next-gen git-based solutions. Prefer 1 file per class git mgmt but whatever. MCZs in git's fine but I chose to limit admin tasks and drive some actual coding in my time mgmt.

I think these cover my choices. I do like dropbox cloud storage lots.

What is the recommended squeak environmental solution? Is it a SqueakSource project? Which MCZ storage solution would be best? Thank you.

Hi Robert,

We do not have a way to incorporate dropbox storage into our continuous integration process (and AFAIK don't currently plan to add it). We strongly prefer getting code in a way that can be handled automatically. Please use one of the supported platforms: - squeaksource - ss3 - smalltalkhub By asking in the squeak mailing list you should be able to have your access reset. Alternatively, you can create an account on ss3 or smalltalkhub.

Are any of these used by both squeak and Pharo? That would be the right move I think. I will ask about getting my password reset for squeaksource, since that is where the old code resides. - Robert

Stephan

After my password reset on squeaksource, I committed to both Cryptography and SqueakElib, project links below. In the case of Cryptography, I had a version ported to Pharo ... I will organize Pharo ports of both after Reed Solomon is stable, and announce them to the Pharo list. This way both environments can be supported through this one repository. Robert On 12/04/2015 04:35 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

On 03-12-15 23:06, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Are any of these used by both squeak and Pharo? That would be the right move I think. I will ask about getting my password reset for squeaksource, since that is where the old code resides.

All of them. Mostly timing of project start/high activity and who are maintaining it decided on platforms. There was a time when squeaksource was not so stable and then many projects migrated, and I currently hear least about stability issues from ss3, but the load on smalltalkhub is much higher, I assume, as that is used for the pharo ci.

In the not so far future Pharo is likely to move to a git based infrastructure, using libgit2. Early adopters are already using it. I haven't heard the squeak ideas about that.

Stephan

I am unable to import these files into SqueakSource, so it may be best done from inside Pharo with Monticello. Here are working Crypto and SqueakElib in Pharo, prior to SecureSession refactoring and Reed Solomon. I include the correct version of LayeredProtocol. Regards, Robert On 12/04/2015 05:47 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

Best Regards

http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html http://www.squeaksource.com/squeakelib.html

On 12/04/2015 05:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

After my password reset on squeaksource, I committed to both Cryptography and SqueakElib, project links below.

In the case of Cryptography, I had a version ported to Pharo ... I will organize Pharo ports of both after Reed Solomon is stable, and announce them to the Pharo list. This way both environments can be supported through this one repository.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 04:35 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

...

On 03-12-15 23:06, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Are any of these used by both squeak and Pharo? That would be the right move I think. I will ask about getting my password reset for squeaksource, since that is where the old code resides.

All of them. Mostly timing of project start/high activity and who are maintaining it decided on platforms. There was a time when squeaksource was not so stable and then many projects migrated, and I currently hear least about stability issues from ss3, but the load on smalltalkhub is much higher, I assume, as that is used for the pharo ci.

In the not so far future Pharo is likely to move to a git based infrastructure, using libgit2. Early adopters are already using it. I haven't heard the squeak ideas about that.

Stephan

which squeak version? of what?

On 04 Dec 2015, at 12:15, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I just realized that the squeak version uses ReferenceStream while the Pharo version uses Fuel, so the binary serializations are different and they won't speak to each other. Any chance that Fuel is ported to Squeak?

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 06:11 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

I am unable to import these files into SqueakSource, so it may be best done from inside Pharo with Monticello. Here are working Crypto and SqueakElib in Pharo, prior to SecureSession refactoring and Reed Solomon. I include the correct version of LayeredProtocol.

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 05:47 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Best Regards

http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html <http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html> http://www.squeaksource.com/squeakelib.html <http://www.squeaksource.com/squeakelib.html>

On 12/04/2015 05:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

After my password reset on squeaksource, I committed to both Cryptography and SqueakElib, project links below.

In the case of Cryptography, I had a version ported to Pharo ... I will organize Pharo ports of both after Reed Solomon is stable, and announce them to the Pharo list. This way both environments can be supported through this one repository.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 04:35 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

...

On 03-12-15 23:06, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Are any of these used by both squeak and Pharo? That would be the right move I think. I will ask about getting my password reset for squeaksource, since that is where the old code resides.

All of them. Mostly timing of project start/high activity and who are maintaining it decided on platforms. There was a time when squeaksource was not so stable and then many projects migrated, and I currently hear least about stability issues from ss3, but the load on smalltalkhub is much higher, I assume, as that is used for the pharo ci.

In the not so far future Pharo is likely to move to a git based infrastructure, using libgit2. Early adopters are already using it. I haven't heard the squeak ideas about that.

Stephan

http://rmod.inria.fr/web/software/Fuel http://rmod.inria.fr/web/software/Fuel/Version1.9/Documentation/Installation "The default packageswork out of the box in Pharo 1.1.1, 1.1.2, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 2.0 and Squeak 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4." And I would guess newer versions too.

On 04 Dec 2015, at 15:43, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I use squeak 5.0 and would want the Fuel support to customize for wire serializations and substitutions, such that Squeak and Pharo could talk to each other, and all other Fuel environments. The Fuel changes I made are in the Pharo port of SqueakElib in the SqueakElib-CapTP-Serialization category and consist of a Decoder, Materializer and a Materialization.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 09:35 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

...

which squeak version? of what?

...

On 04 Dec 2015, at 12:15, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I just realized that the squeak version uses ReferenceStream while the Pharo version uses Fuel, so the binary serializations are different and they won't speak to each other. Any chance that Fuel is ported to Squeak?

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 06:11 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

I am unable to import these files into SqueakSource, so it may be best done from inside Pharo with Monticello. Here are working Crypto and SqueakElib in Pharo, prior to SecureSession refactoring and Reed Solomon. I include the correct version of LayeredProtocol.

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 05:47 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Best Regards

http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html http://www.squeaksource.com/squeakelib.html

On 12/04/2015 05:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

After my password reset on squeaksource, I committed to both Cryptography and SqueakElib, project links below.

In the case of Cryptography, I had a version ported to Pharo ... I will organize Pharo ports of both after Reed Solomon is stable, and announce them to the Pharo list. This way both environments can be supported through this one repository.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 04:35 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

...

On 03-12-15 23:06, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Are any of these used by both squeak and Pharo? That would be the right move I think. I will ask about getting my password reset for squeaksource, since that is where the old code resides.

All of them. Mostly timing of project start/high activity and who are maintaining it decided on platforms. There was a time when squeaksource was not so stable and then many projects migrated, and I currently hear least about stability issues from ss3, but the load on smalltalkhub is much higher, I assume, as that is used for the pharo ci.

In the not so far future Pharo is likely to move to a git based infrastructure, using libgit2. Early adopters are already using it. I haven't heard the squeak ideas about that.

Stephan

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits. Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ... "Maelstrom" A new distributed metric will be established in Maelstrom to measure intra- & inter-vat activity: "Sanguinity". Robert PS. thanks for pointing out Fuel support for older squeaks. On 12/04/2015 10:25 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

Another suggestion: if you intend to make something cross dialect and hope to get traction, I would not use a project name which contains one dialect, but something more general like Cryptography, or some cool project name, like Seaside, Fuel, ...

...

On 04 Dec 2015, at 15:43, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I use squeak 5.0 and would want the Fuel support to customize for wire serializations and substitutions, such that Squeak and Pharo could talk to each other, and all other Fuel environments. The Fuel changes I made are in the Pharo port of SqueakElib in the SqueakElib-CapTP-Serialization category and consist of a Decoder, Materializer and a Materialization.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 09:35 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

...

which squeak version? of what?

...

On 04 Dec 2015, at 12:15, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I just realized that the squeak version uses ReferenceStream while the Pharo version uses Fuel, so the binary serializations are different and they won't speak to each other. Any chance that Fuel is ported to Squeak?

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 06:11 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

I am unable to import these files into SqueakSource, so it may be best done from inside Pharo with Monticello. Here are working Crypto and SqueakElib in Pharo, prior to SecureSession refactoring and Reed Solomon. I include the correct version of LayeredProtocol.

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 05:47 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Best Regards

http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html http://www.squeaksource.com/squeakelib.html

On 12/04/2015 05:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

After my password reset on squeaksource, I committed to both Cryptography and SqueakElib, project links below.

In the case of Cryptography, I had a version ported to Pharo ... I will organize Pharo ports of both after Reed Solomon is stable, and announce them to the Pharo list. This way both environments can be supported through this one repository.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 04:35 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

...

On 03-12-15 23:06, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Are any of these used by both squeak and Pharo? That would be the right move I think. I will ask about getting my password reset for squeaksource, since that is where the old code resides. All of them. Mostly timing of project start/high activity and who are maintaining it decided on platforms. There was a time when squeaksource was not so stable and then many projects migrated, and I currently hear least about stability issues from ss3, but the load on smalltalkhub is much higher, I assume, as that is used for the pharo ci.

In the not so far future Pharo is likely to move to a git based infrastructure, using libgit2. Early adopters are already using it. I haven't heard the squeak ideas about that.

Stephan

I had to reconceptualize how substitutions worked in Pharo, while learning Fuel, as it has been awhile since I played with that serialization. I recently came back to smalltalk after years. My real goal is mobile code so it can run where it has most affinity, even though that's not yet known. Enter sanguinity. This is great news and I am excited by the potential to see Squeak and Pharo talking to each other. cheers, Robert On 12/04/2015 11:41 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:

I think that either Max or Martin did the Spur needed changes for Fuel. So likely it should be easy to make it work in latest Squeak.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote:

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom"

A new distributed metric will be established in Maelstrom to measure intra- & inter-vat activity: "Sanguinity".

Robert

PS. thanks for pointing out Fuel support for older squeaks.

On 12/04/2015 10:25 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

Another suggestion: if you intend to make something cross dialect and hope to get traction, I would not use a project name which contains one dialect, but something more general like Cryptography, or some cool project name, like Seaside, Fuel, ...

On 04 Dec 2015, at 15:43, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote:

I use squeak 5.0 and would want the Fuel support to customize for wire serializations and substitutions, such that Squeak and Pharo could talk to each other, and all other Fuel environments. The Fuel changes I made are in the Pharo port of SqueakElib in the SqueakElib-CapTP-Serialization category and consist of a Decoder, Materializer and a Materialization.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 09:35 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

which squeak version? of what?

On 04 Dec 2015, at 12:15, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote:

I just realized that the squeak version uses ReferenceStream while the Pharo version uses Fuel, so the binary serializations are different and they won't speak to each other. Any chance that Fuel is ported to Squeak?

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 06:11 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

I am unable to import these files into SqueakSource, so it may be best done from inside Pharo with Monticello. Here are working Crypto and SqueakElib in Pharo, prior to SecureSession refactoring and Reed Solomon. I include the correct version of LayeredProtocol.

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 05:47 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

Best Regards

http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html http://www.squeaksource.com/squeakelib.html

On 12/04/2015 05:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

After my password reset on squeaksource, I committed to both Cryptography and SqueakElib, project links below.

In the case of Cryptography, I had a version ported to Pharo ... I will organize Pharo ports of both after Reed Solomon is stable, and announce them to the Pharo list. This way both environments can be supported through this one repository.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 04:35 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

On 03-12-15 23:06, Robert Withers wrote:

Are any of these used by both squeak and Pharo? That would be the right move I think. I will ask about getting my password reset for squeaksource, since that is where the old code resides.

All of them. Mostly timing of project start/high activity and who are maintaining it decided on platforms. There was a time when squeaksource was not so stable and then many projects migrated, and I currently hear least about stability issues from ss3, but the load on smalltalkhub is much higher, I assume, as that is used for the pharo ci.

In the not so far future Pharo is likely to move to a git based infrastructure, using libgit2. Early adopters are already using it. I haven't heard the squeak ideas about that.

Stephan

-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

I've created a new SqueakSource project for this: http://www.squeaksource.com/maelstrom.html. All future improvements will go to this repository. Here's where wiki documentation can go: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/maelstrom/wiki Thank you for prompting this name change. Robert On 12/04/2015 10:57 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom"

A new distributed metric will be established in Maelstrom to measure intra- & inter-vat activity: "Sanguinity".

Robert

PS. thanks for pointing out Fuel support for older squeaks.

On 12/04/2015 10:25 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

...

Another suggestion: if you intend to make something cross dialect and hope to get traction, I would not use a project name which contains one dialect, but something more general like Cryptography, or some cool project name, like Seaside, Fuel, ...

...

On 04 Dec 2015, at 15:43, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I use squeak 5.0 and would want the Fuel support to customize for wire serializations and substitutions, such that Squeak and Pharo could talk to each other, and all other Fuel environments. The Fuel changes I made are in the Pharo port of SqueakElib in the SqueakElib-CapTP-Serialization category and consist of a Decoder, Materializer and a Materialization.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 09:35 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

...

which squeak version? of what?

...

On 04 Dec 2015, at 12:15, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I just realized that the squeak version uses ReferenceStream while the Pharo version uses Fuel, so the binary serializations are different and they won't speak to each other. Any chance that Fuel is ported to Squeak?

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 06:11 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

I am unable to import these files into SqueakSource, so it may be best done from inside Pharo with Monticello. Here are working Crypto and SqueakElib in Pharo, prior to SecureSession refactoring and Reed Solomon. I include the correct version of LayeredProtocol.

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 05:47 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Best Regards

http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html http://www.squeaksource.com/squeakelib.html

On 12/04/2015 05:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

After my password reset on squeaksource, I committed to both Cryptography and SqueakElib, project links below.

In the case of Cryptography, I had a version ported to Pharo ... I will organize Pharo ports of both after Reed Solomon is stable, and announce them to the Pharo list. This way both environments can be supported through this one repository.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 04:35 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

...

On 03-12-15 23:06, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Are any of these used by both squeak and Pharo? That would be the right move I think. I will ask about getting my password reset for squeaksource, since that is where the old code resides. All of them. Mostly timing of project start/high activity and who are maintaining it decided on platforms. There was a time when squeaksource was not so stable and then many projects migrated, and I currently hear least about stability issues from ss3, but the load on smalltalkhub is much higher, I assume, as that is used for the pharo ci.

In the not so far future Pharo is likely to move to a git based infrastructure, using libgit2. Early adopters are already using it. I haven't heard the squeak ideas about that.

Stephan

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom" Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"? cheers, Robert

...

A new distributed metric will be established in Maelstrom to measure intra- & inter-vat activity: "Sanguinity".

Robert

PS. thanks for pointing out Fuel support for older squeaks.

On 12/04/2015 10:25 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

...

Another suggestion: if you intend to make something cross dialect and hope to get traction, I would not use a project name which contains one dialect, but something more general like Cryptography, or some cool project name, like Seaside, Fuel, ...

...

On 04 Dec 2015, at 15:43, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I use squeak 5.0 and would want the Fuel support to customize for wire serializations and substitutions, such that Squeak and Pharo could talk to each other, and all other Fuel environments. The Fuel changes I made are in the Pharo port of SqueakElib in the SqueakElib-CapTP-Serialization category and consist of a Decoder, Materializer and a Materialization.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 09:35 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

...

which squeak version? of what?

...

On 04 Dec 2015, at 12:15, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I just realized that the squeak version uses ReferenceStream while the Pharo version uses Fuel, so the binary serializations are different and they won't speak to each other. Any chance that Fuel is ported to Squeak?

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 06:11 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

I am unable to import these files into SqueakSource, so it may be best done from inside Pharo with Monticello. Here are working Crypto and SqueakElib in Pharo, prior to SecureSession refactoring and Reed Solomon. I include the correct version of LayeredProtocol.

Regards, Robert

On 12/04/2015 05:47 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Best Regards

http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html http://www.squeaksource.com/squeakelib.html

On 12/04/2015 05:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

After my password reset on squeaksource, I committed to both Cryptography and SqueakElib, project links below.

In the case of Cryptography, I had a version ported to Pharo ... I will organize Pharo ports of both after Reed Solomon is stable, and announce them to the Pharo list. This way both environments can be supported through this one repository.

Robert

On 12/04/2015 04:35 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

...

On 03-12-15 23:06, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Are any of these used by both squeak and Pharo? That would be the right move I think. I will ask about getting my password reset for squeaksource, since that is where the old code resides. All of them. Mostly timing of project start/high activity and who are maintaining it decided on platforms. There was a time when squeaksource was not so stable and then many projects migrated, and I currently hear least about stability issues from ss3, but the load on smalltalkhub is much higher, I assume, as that is used for the pharo ci.

In the not so far future Pharo is likely to move to a git based infrastructure, using libgit2. Early adopters are already using it. I haven't heard the squeak ideas about that.

Stephan

Why is it that naming turns out to be the most challenging and also rewarding of activities at times? Lot's of ROI in a good name. It's strange, I'll have to think more about this naming activity and arrive at a good metaname. I think another good possibility you brought to my mind is "mushroom"...it's growing on me? :) On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom" Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom"

Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

http://catalog.pharo.org is a partial answer, it is also available in-image:

On 07 Dec 2015, at 18:52, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard@mac.com> wrote:

Sigh.

I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects. I went looking on Smalltalkhub for some capability and what I found are thousands of packages with names that mean nothing and no description entered either. If you want to make sure nobody ever uses your code you've just taken a giant step in the right direction. But if you hope to make something lots of people benefit from - nobody is going to look for "mushroom" when they want crypto capabilities.

Sorry, this has been really bugging me lately. We, as a community, do a lousy job of making our code easy to find.

-Todd Blanchard

...

On Dec 7, 2015, at 07:38, Ben Coman <btc@openInWorld.com> wrote:

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom"

Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

The philosophical issue behind the disutility of project names like these is "Meno's Paradox" On 8 December 2015 at 21:01, EuanM <euanmee@gmail.com> wrote:

"I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects" - Todd

I agree.

I went looking for the current state of dbxtalk recently. It seemed to ba apackage designed for my needs - to X[-over] from a DB to [small]talk.

I went there and the the page started talking about "Glorp" and "Garage". Neither are mnemonic or meaningful

These projects are just the tip of the iceberg.

Pharo project names have publisher-only project names. The project name equivalent of write-only computer languages, like Brain-F**k.

On 7 December 2015 at 17:52, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard@mac.com> wrote:

...

Sigh.

I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects. I went looking on Smalltalkhub for some capability and what I found are thousands of packages with names that mean nothing and no description entered either. If you want to make sure nobody ever uses your code you've just taken a giant step in the right direction. But if you hope to make something lots of people benefit from - nobody is going to look for "mushroom" when they want crypto capabilities.

Sorry, this has been really bugging me lately. We, as a community, do a lousy job of making our code easy to find.

-Todd Blanchard

...

On Dec 7, 2015, at 07:38, Ben Coman <btc@openInWorld.com> wrote:

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom"

Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

On 12/08/2015 04:20 PM, Robert Withers wrote:

I would need to disagree with you as inquiry is possible by description, rather than by name, through conversation with those who don't have to inquire, due to their knowledge [see Meno's Paradox...]. So, a third possibility exists through communal association. Do you know Kevin Bacon? ;-)

I've used that language!

Well, no, I haven't, but there is high affinity.

On 12/08/2015 04:02 PM, EuanM wrote:

...

The philosophical issue behind the disutility of project names like these is "Meno's Paradox"

On 8 December 2015 at 21:01, EuanM <euanmee@gmail.com> wrote:

...

"I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects" - Todd

I agree.

I went looking for the current state of dbxtalk recently. It seemed to ba apackage designed for my needs - to X[-over] from a DB to [small]talk.

I went there and the the page started talking about "Glorp" and "Garage". Neither are mnemonic or meaningful

These projects are just the tip of the iceberg.

Pharo project names have publisher-only project names. The project name equivalent of write-only computer languages, like Brain-F**k.

On 7 December 2015 at 17:52, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard@mac.com> wrote:

...

Sigh.

I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects. I went looking on Smalltalkhub for some capability and what I found are thousands of packages with names that mean nothing and no description entered either. If you want to make sure nobody ever uses your code you've just taken a giant step in the right direction. But if you hope to make something lots of people benefit from - nobody is going to look for "mushroom" when they want crypto capabilities.

Sorry, this has been really bugging me lately. We, as a community, do a lousy job of making our code easy to find.

-Todd Blanchard

...

On Dec 7, 2015, at 07:38, Ben Coman <btc@openInWorld.com> wrote:

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom" Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

Whoever works with Hadoop tech would find names like: Hadoop Spark Cassandra HBase Accumulo Hive Pig Impala Oozie YARN Kafka Flume Sqoop ... Go datascience and you'll get: R Shiny Jupyter Pandas Bokeh D3 And in JS: Node Angular Express descriptive names? Not at all. What matters is not the name, it is its description. And, know what, put a generic name and it will be ungooglable. Try with Visual Studio Code ... Pfah, descriptive project names... As if these were descriptive: Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet) Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS (Trusty Tahr) Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS (Precise Pangolin) Oh yeah super descriptive names: Oracle Communications Diameter Signaling Router Have a clue? Enjoy, they have a bunch and renamed a few: https://www.oracle.com/products/oracle-a-z.html Want to know? Pay the dues. Phil On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 10:20 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

I would need to disagree with you as inquiry is possible by description, rather than by name, through conversation with those who don't have to inquire, due to their knowledge [see Meno's Paradox...]. So, a third possibility exists through communal association. Do you know Kevin Bacon? ;-)

I've used that language!

On 12/08/2015 04:02 PM, EuanM wrote:

...

The philosophical issue behind the disutility of project names like these is "Meno's Paradox"

On 8 December 2015 at 21:01, EuanM <euanmee@gmail.com> wrote:

...

"I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects" - Todd

I agree.

I went looking for the current state of dbxtalk recently. It seemed to ba apackage designed for my needs - to X[-over] from a DB to [small]talk.

I went there and the the page started talking about "Glorp" and "Garage". Neither are mnemonic or meaningful

These projects are just the tip of the iceberg.

Pharo project names have publisher-only project names. The project name equivalent of write-only computer languages, like Brain-F**k.

On 7 December 2015 at 17:52, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard@mac.com> wrote:

...

Sigh.

I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects. I went looking on Smalltalkhub for some capability and what I found are thousands of packages with names that mean nothing and no description entered either. If you want to make sure nobody ever uses your code you've just taken a giant step in the right direction. But if you hope to make something lots of people benefit from - nobody is going to look for "mushroom" when they want crypto capabilities.

Sorry, this has been really bugging me lately. We, as a community, do a lousy job of making our code easy to find.

-Todd Blanchard

On Dec 7, 2015, at 07:38, Ben Coman <btc@openInWorld.com> wrote:

...

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom"

Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

Personally, I prefer names like SUnit and JUnit. And these provide counter-counter examples. :-) On 8 December 2015 at 23:25, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

Wait. Kafka is a part of Hadoop, now? Getting some Love! There's a good match right there. Makes for a very good lambda architecture. They need a meta. Hello squeak!!! Somebody just needs to build a kafka interface and a spark callback interface. Get squeak with caching to start grinding data, it's right there.

You're right, Phil. Furthermore these names are personable, effective marketing and they always have something to do with what they do. Taker flume, sqoop, yarn or impala. I'll take the Impala, thank you. It's vintage.

In my case, choosing Mushroom has a reasonable descriptive power when considered in light of mobile code budding out all over the grid. It's a cloud solution.

Robert

On 12/08/2015 05:10 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:

Whoever works with Hadoop tech would find names like:

Hadoop Spark Cassandra HBase Accumulo Hive Pig Impala Oozie YARN Kafka Flume Sqoop ...

Go datascience and you'll get:

R Shiny Jupyter Pandas Bokeh D3

And in JS:

Node Angular Express

descriptive names? Not at all.

What matters is not the name, it is its description.

And, know what, put a generic name and it will be ungooglable.

Try with Visual Studio Code ...

Pfah, descriptive project names... As if these were descriptive:

Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet) Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS (Trusty Tahr) Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS (Precise Pangolin)

Oh yeah super descriptive names:

Oracle Communications Diameter Signaling Router

Have a clue? Enjoy, they have a bunch and renamed a few: https://www.oracle.com/products/oracle-a-z.html

Want to know? Pay the dues.

Phil

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 10:20 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I would need to disagree with you as inquiry is possible by description, rather than by name, through conversation with those who don't have to inquire, due to their knowledge [see Meno's Paradox...]. So, a third possibility exists through communal association. Do you know Kevin Bacon? ;-)

I've used that language!

On 12/08/2015 04:02 PM, EuanM wrote:

...

The philosophical issue behind the disutility of project names like these is "Meno's Paradox"

On 8 December 2015 at 21:01, EuanM <euanmee@gmail.com> wrote:

...

"I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects" - Todd

I agree.

I went looking for the current state of dbxtalk recently. It seemed to ba apackage designed for my needs - to X[-over] from a DB to [small]talk.

I went there and the the page started talking about "Glorp" and "Garage". Neither are mnemonic or meaningful

These projects are just the tip of the iceberg.

Pharo project names have publisher-only project names. The project name equivalent of write-only computer languages, like Brain-F**k.

On 7 December 2015 at 17:52, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard@mac.com> wrote:

...

Sigh.

I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects. I went looking on Smalltalkhub for some capability and what I found are thousands of packages with names that mean nothing and no description entered either. If you want to make sure nobody ever uses your code you've just taken a giant step in the right direction. But if you hope to make something lots of people benefit from - nobody is going to look for "mushroom" when they want crypto capabilities.

Sorry, this has been really bugging me lately. We, as a community, do a lousy job of making our code easy to find.

-Todd Blanchard

...

On Dec 7, 2015, at 07:38, Ben Coman <btc@openInWorld.com> wrote:

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom"

Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

"Want to know? Pay the dues." i.e keep the barriers to entry high. This restricts the popularity of languages to those people who are determined to pay the dues no matter what. This is why Pharo language has popularity equivalent to Lasso language's. I'd rather lower the barriers to entry, and have a platform used by more developers and by more solutions-providers and by more end-users. Then again, I'd prefer to use Smalltalk and Pharo for my day-job, and not restrict it to being a hobby. On 8 December 2015 at 22:10, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:

Whoever works with Hadoop tech would find names like:

Hadoop Spark Cassandra HBase Accumulo Hive Pig Impala Oozie YARN Kafka Flume Sqoop ...

Go datascience and you'll get:

R Shiny Jupyter Pandas Bokeh D3

And in JS:

Node Angular Express

descriptive names? Not at all.

What matters is not the name, it is its description.

And, know what, put a generic name and it will be ungooglable.

Try with Visual Studio Code ...

Pfah, descriptive project names... As if these were descriptive:

Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet) Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS (Trusty Tahr) Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS (Precise Pangolin)

Oh yeah super descriptive names:

Oracle Communications Diameter Signaling Router

Have a clue? Enjoy, they have a bunch and renamed a few: https://www.oracle.com/products/oracle-a-z.html

Want to know? Pay the dues.

Phil

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 10:20 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I would need to disagree with you as inquiry is possible by description, rather than by name, through conversation with those who don't have to inquire, due to their knowledge [see Meno's Paradox...]. So, a third possibility exists through communal association. Do you know Kevin Bacon? ;-)

I've used that language!

On 12/08/2015 04:02 PM, EuanM wrote:

...

The philosophical issue behind the disutility of project names like these is "Meno's Paradox"

On 8 December 2015 at 21:01, EuanM <euanmee@gmail.com> wrote:

...

"I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects" - Todd

I agree.

I went looking for the current state of dbxtalk recently. It seemed to ba apackage designed for my needs - to X[-over] from a DB to [small]talk.

I went there and the the page started talking about "Glorp" and "Garage". Neither are mnemonic or meaningful

These projects are just the tip of the iceberg.

Pharo project names have publisher-only project names. The project name equivalent of write-only computer languages, like Brain-F**k.

On 7 December 2015 at 17:52, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard@mac.com> wrote:

...

Sigh.

I wish people would choose descriptive names for their projects. I went looking on Smalltalkhub for some capability and what I found are thousands of packages with names that mean nothing and no description entered either. If you want to make sure nobody ever uses your code you've just taken a giant step in the right direction. But if you hope to make something lots of people benefit from - nobody is going to look for "mushroom" when they want crypto capabilities.

Sorry, this has been really bugging me lately. We, as a community, do a lousy job of making our code easy to find.

-Todd Blanchard

...

On Dec 7, 2015, at 07:38, Ben Coman <btc@openInWorld.com> wrote:

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom"

Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

Hi, On the names side, I would advice some kind of unique combination, for example "Jupyter notebook", works fine to find particularly the project this community is trying to build. In my own case, I spend a lot of time thinking in names and I discuss them with friends with a drink or a meal. Despite of not having a strong web presence in the sense of continuous updates in the web pages of my projects (my main web page is still under construction!) they position relatively well on google and DDG engines: [1] https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=es&q=grafoscopio (5th link) [2] https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=es&q=mutabit (1st link) [3] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mutabit&t=ffsb (1st link) [4] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=grafoscopio&t=ffsb (2nd link) It didn't happen overnight but was a fluid organic process. So may be "Mushroom crypto" or "Risotto crypto" could be important descriptors in the main web presence sites of your projects (BTW, I can't find the repos and GitHub answers with 404). Cheers, Offray On 07/12/15 17:57, Robert Withers wrote:

Ben, Huw, Todd and Sven, thank you all for your feedback! I suppose I could call the project "CryptOCaps" but for some reason I glommed onto mushroom as the name. Not grandiose and it is somewhat descriptive...a network of secure sessions, each one a mushroom. Ceps are highly valued. We can tag it for the catalog.

For sure, we have Seaside, Morphic, Nebraska, Fuel, Alien, Cog, Monticello and that's just the squeak side of unusual naming of projects. I hope that "mushroom" gains a wide reputation as a solid, reliable, secure and performant session layer under the CryptOCaps presentation...I am thinking of splitting the secure session layer from the ocaps presentation layer, but this would require another name choice, so I hesitate...perhaps "Risotto"? What are your thoughts?

Best, Robert

On 12/07/2015 10:38 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom" Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

The Ode to CryptoCeps: Bouncer: "No, I'm sorry. This is a restricted area..." *checks around in case there's a problem* Me: " 'cep I got this..." *hands over teensie tiny tasty little mushoom* Note to self: 'did I eat one of those???' *can't seem to recall the particular moment. Oh@* Community: *looking sideways at each other* "What the hell is a mushoom?" Thank You! so much. On 12/18/2015 10:27 PM, Robert Withers wrote:

Ah ha!!! Thank you...how about CryptOCeps? ;)

On 12/18/2015 10:22 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:

...

Hi,

On the names side, I would advice some kind of unique combination, for example "Jupyter notebook", works fine to find particularly the project this community is trying to build. In my own case, I spend a lot of time thinking in names and I discuss them with friends with a drink or a meal. Despite of not having a strong web presence in the sense of continuous updates in the web pages of my projects (my main web page is still under construction!) they position relatively well on google and DDG engines:

[1] https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=es&q=grafoscopio (5th link) [2] https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=es&q=mutabit (1st link) [3] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mutabit&t=ffsb (1st link) [4] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=grafoscopio&t=ffsb (2nd link)

It didn't happen overnight but was a fluid organic process. So may be "Mushroom crypto" or "Risotto crypto" could be important descriptors in the main web presence sites of your projects (BTW, I can't find the repos and GitHub answers with 404).

Cheers,

Offray

On 07/12/15 17:57, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Ben, Huw, Todd and Sven, thank you all for your feedback! I suppose I could call the project "CryptOCaps" but for some reason I glommed onto mushroom as the name. Not grandiose and it is somewhat descriptive...a network of secure sessions, each one a mushroom. Ceps are highly valued. We can tag it for the catalog.

For sure, we have Seaside, Morphic, Nebraska, Fuel, Alien, Cog, Monticello and that's just the squeak side of unusual naming of projects. I hope that "mushroom" gains a wide reputation as a solid, reliable, secure and performant session layer under the CryptOCaps presentation...I am thinking of splitting the secure session layer from the ocaps presentation layer, but this would require another name choice, so I hesitate...perhaps "Risotto"? What are your thoughts?

Best, Robert

On 12/07/2015 10:38 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom" Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

-- . .. .. ^,^ robert

I just tried, looking for plugins you know. I get so impatient to get all this to work. It takes lots of effrort. Thanks for the name check, let's go for it! robert On 12/18/2015 11:45 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:

At list it doesn't have a lot of hits:

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=es&q=CryptoCeps#hl=es&q=CryptoCeps&nf...

I think that the best thing is to come by the slack channel and talk it in #random (now I'm almost slept). Trying a new name has a lot of bouncing ideas in my experience, so real time communication is better that mailing list (that's why I talk about it with friends over meal or drinks).

Cheers,

Offray

On 18/12/15 22:37, Robert Withers wrote:

...

The Ode to CryptoCeps:

Bouncer: "No, I'm sorry. This is a restricted area..." *checks around in case there's a problem*

Me: " 'cep I got this..." *hands over teensie tiny tasty little mushoom*

Note to self: 'did I eat one of those???' *can't seem to recall the particular moment. Oh@*

Community: *looking sideways at each other* "What the hell is a mushoom?"

Thank You! so much.

On 12/18/2015 10:27 PM, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Ah ha!!! Thank you...how about CryptOCeps? ;)

On 12/18/2015 10:22 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:

...

Hi,

On the names side, I would advice some kind of unique combination, for example "Jupyter notebook", works fine to find particularly the project this community is trying to build. In my own case, I spend a lot of time thinking in names and I discuss them with friends with a drink or a meal. Despite of not having a strong web presence in the sense of continuous updates in the web pages of my projects (my main web page is still under construction!) they position relatively well on google and DDG engines:

[1] https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=es&q=grafoscopio (5th link) [2] https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=es&q=mutabit (1st link) [3] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mutabit&t=ffsb (1st link) [4] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=grafoscopio&t=ffsb (2nd link)

It didn't happen overnight but was a fluid organic process. So may be "Mushroom crypto" or "Risotto crypto" could be important descriptors in the main web presence sites of your projects (BTW, I can't find the repos and GitHub answers with 404).

Cheers,

Offray

On 07/12/15 17:57, Robert Withers wrote:

...

Ben, Huw, Todd and Sven, thank you all for your feedback! I suppose I could call the project "CryptOCaps" but for some reason I glommed onto mushroom as the name. Not grandiose and it is somewhat descriptive...a network of secure sessions, each one a mushroom. Ceps are highly valued. We can tag it for the catalog.

For sure, we have Seaside, Morphic, Nebraska, Fuel, Alien, Cog, Monticello and that's just the squeak side of unusual naming of projects. I hope that "mushroom" gains a wide reputation as a solid, reliable, secure and performant session layer under the CryptOCaps presentation...I am thinking of splitting the secure session layer from the ocaps presentation layer, but this would require another name choice, so I hesitate...perhaps "Risotto"? What are your thoughts?

Best, Robert

On 12/07/2015 10:38 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

I like it, but it seems you missed my point :) mushroom --> 117,000,000 is two orders of magnitude more hidden. Anyway, maybe I overplay its significance. cheers -ben

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I renamed the project to Mushroom and I also dumped the encoding work to focus on shutdown, optimization and serialization. Here's the wiki: https://github.com/SqueakCryptographySquad/Mushroom/wiki

thanks,Robert

On 12/06/2015 01:42 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12/05/2015 09:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Now I think you are right on with your observation. Additionally, the number of dialects could increase further with Fuel serialization, just port SecureSession and bits.

Alright, I came up with a name and it may border on the egregious ... presenting ...

"Maelstrom" Great sounding name. However some general advice for the community, since I see a lot of great sounding project names drowned out in the noise of our web-search-centric universe. A litmus test for project naming is using google search to find which return low search results. Today, its more important to be unique than any other attribute of a name. So in general, *dictionary* english words are not the best. One technique is to intentionally mispell the word you like. Here are some comparative examples (note, the surrounding quotes are required to avoid google trying to be helpful and correct the spelling)...

"maelstrom" --> 7,480,000 "maelstroom" --> 6,200 "maelstrum" --> 2,280 "maelstruum" --> 7

Lots of interesting other techniques can be found by searching on: techniques to generate brand names or domain names.

cheers -ben

I would be happy to change the names to something more unique, though it may take a few. Are you suggesting "maelstruum"?

cheers, Robert

*Suggesting* yes, but the choice is yours ;) You need to own it.

I think maelstruum is certainly memorable with the double "u", but maybe jarring next the the "m". I'm inclined to maelstroom, since I associate it with "zoom". I wouldn't necessarily go for the absolute lowest results. I have an entirely unsubstantiated belief that anything less than 10,000 gives a reasonable chance to compete once a user's browsing history is taken into account. Finally you need to check existing results don't return something abhorrent (I didn't do this).

I'd encourage to play around testing on google search. Its quick and easy to generate and test alternatives. I've added a few more below. "maelstra" --> 3,560 "maelstram" --> 504 "maelstrim" --> 1200 "maelstroon" --> 58 "maelstroomi" --> 4

btw, I wouldn't swap the order of the "ae" since that would be susceptible to real typing errors.

cheers -ben

-- . .. .. ^,^ robert