what i've wanted is a pure-objects system. somehow, none of the options (python, ruby, obj-c) come close to fulfilling my requirements the way smalltalk does. i do have certain ideas i wish to explore which require an object system to as deep a level as possible with a certain liveness to it (hence my investigation of "self"). yes, i agree, pharo is indeed built on the shoulder of giants. :) heraclitus actually said, "everything _flows_" (panta rhei). ~mayuresh On 2014-09-19 17:56, kilon alios wrote:

it all comes down to what you want. You are not obliged to even use Smalltalk in the first place, what matter is what you want to do ? What project you have in mind ? what are your goals ? how you want to achieve them ? etc

Pharo comes with its own set of problems and flaws like any other language out there, by trying it out you will find yourself if it can fit your needs. 

In any case welcome back, Pharoers have worked hard to push smalltalk forward and they are very active and helpful. On other hand Pharo would not even exist if Squeak did not exist so you could say "Pharo is built on shoulder of giants" ;) 

For me Pharo has a long way to go before I call it "polished" but no doubt its getting there and is a fascinating project. 

As Heraclitus said "Everything moves"  

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> wrote:

...

hello all,

i had to do it. after listening to everybody's comments about my questions to the list, i went out and checked on the current state of squeak and self.

looks like squeak and self definitely need a lot of attention from experienced developers and visionaries.

since i don't fall squarely in either category, it would be best to work with pharo.

also, as someone had mentioned, almost all smalltalk systems have diverged too much from the st-80 specification, so why not go for pharo which is so highly polished already and is being constantly improved!

so here i am, back in pharo land.

~mayuresh

On 2014-09-19 19:34, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

On 19 Sep 2014, at 15:59, Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> wrote:

...

heraclitus actually said, "everything _flows_" (panta rhei).

No he said: Πάντα ῥεῖ ;-)

true... :-D

thanks for the warm welcome. :) the self vm while interesting, isn't as portable as "squeak" and it's derived systems. ~mayuresh On 2014-09-19 18:06, Thierry Goubier wrote:

Welcome back!

You convinced me to have a look at Self, which I didn't in, what, more than 15 years? They even have multiple host windows :)

Thierry

2014-09-19 14:07 GMT+02:00 Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in>:

...

hello all,

i had to do it. after listening to everybody's comments about my questions to the list, i went out and checked on the current state of squeak and self.

looks like squeak and self definitely need a lot of attention from experienced developers and visionaries.

since i don't fall squarely in either category, it would be best to work with pharo.

also, as someone had mentioned, almost all smalltalk systems have diverged too much from the st-80 specification, so why not go for pharo which is so highly polished already and is being constantly improved!

so here i am, back in pharo land.

~mayuresh