Hi all, I'm reading with great joy, various pharo/smalltalk related books to get a glimpse of what is available. I started with PBE and almost finished, then the Seaside Tutorial by HPI and the Moose. I'm just browsing them and make some things here and there using the Pharo image and workspaces to create documentation. Now I'm reading the Master Thesis "Scripting Browsers with Glamour" by Phillip Bunge and as I read about MVC this part: Reenskaug, however, never intended for the breaking of encapsulation that the pattern promotes. He wrote later that the âtop level goal was to support the userâs mental model of the relevant information space and to enable the user to inspect and edit this information.â I think that I want the same: support my own mental model when I'm exploring Pharo/Smalltalk. I have been a long user of Leo[1] mostly for documentation related matters and I would like to have this kind of tree-like WorkSpace in Pharo, instead of the plain one provided by default. So I will continue the reading of the thesis, but I would like to know if there is any package that can provide this support for my "leo alike mental of documentation" inside Pharo. If this is not the case, I think that trying to create this "TreeSpace" in replace of the usual WorkSpace will be my first projects. [1] http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html Please let me know any thoughts or advices about this idea. Cheers, Offray
On 2 August 2011 19:52, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm reading with great joy, various pharo/smalltalk related books to get a glimpse of what is available. I started with PBE and almost finished, then the Seaside Tutorial by HPI and the Moose. I'm just browsing them and make some things here and there using the Pharo image and workspaces to create documentation. Now I'm reading the Master Thesis "Scripting Browsers with Glamour" by Phillip Bunge and as I read about MVC this part:
Reenskaug, however, never intended for the breaking of encapsulation that the pattern promotes. He wrote later that the âtop level goal was to support the userâs mental model of the relevant information space and to enable the user to inspect and edit this information.â
I think that I want the same: support my own mental model when I'm exploring Pharo/Smalltalk. I have been a long user of Leo[1] mostly for documentation related matters and I would like to have this kind of tree-like WorkSpace in Pharo, instead of the plain one provided by default. So I will continue the reading of the thesis, but I would like to know if there is any package that can provide this support for my "leo alike mental of documentation" inside Pharo. If this is not the case, I think that trying to create this "TreeSpace" in replace of the usual WorkSpace will be my first projects.
[1] http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Please let me know any thoughts or advices about this idea.
I think you should take a look on Nautilus project (Ben, can you provide link/instructions?). It using trees instead of lists to display contents in browser. But i puzzled, what are use of trees in workspace? Maybe you meant browser? Because by looking at screenshots [1], it is closely similar to browser. Workspace in smalltalk is just a text editing area where you can type small snippets of code and then evaluate them. I see no way where trees could be of any use in workspace. [1]http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/screen-shots.html
Cheers,
Offray
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 2 August 2011 19:52, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm reading with great joy, various pharo/smalltalk related books to get a glimpse of what is available. I started with PBE and almost finished, then the Seaside Tutorial by HPI and the Moose. I'm just browsing them and make some things here and there using the Pharo image and workspaces to create documentation. Now I'm reading the Master Thesis "Scripting Browsers with Glamour" by Phillip Bunge and as I read about MVC this part:
Reenskaug, however, never intended for the breaking of encapsulation that the pattern promotes. He wrote later that the âtop level goal was to support the userâs mental model of the relevant information space and to enable the user to inspect and edit this information.â
I think that I want the same: support my own mental model when I'm exploring Pharo/Smalltalk. I have been a long user of Leo[1] mostly for documentation related matters and I would like to have this kind of tree-like WorkSpace in Pharo, instead of the plain one provided by default. So I will continue the reading of the thesis, but I would like to know if there is any package that can provide this support for my "leo alike mental of documentation" inside Pharo. If this is not the case, I think that trying to create this "TreeSpace" in replace of the usual WorkSpace will be my first projects.
[1] http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Please let me know any thoughts or advices about this idea.
I think you should take a look on Nautilus project (Ben, can you provide link/instructions?).
https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Nautilus/ :) The tree-based browser is Nautilus (Nautilus2 is more basic) If someone has some questions, I will be glad to answer :) Ben
It using trees instead of lists to display contents in browser.
But i puzzled, what are use of trees in workspace? Maybe you meant browser? Because by looking at screenshots [1], it is closely similar to browser. Workspace in smalltalk is just a text editing area where you can type small snippets of code and then evaluate them. I see no way where trees could be of any use in workspace.
[1]http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/screen-shots.html
Cheers,
Offray
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Hi there Well, perhaps you like this idea (ideas are easier that programming, are they? :o) what about a workspace with on the left a tree pane with in the tree: saved workspaces grouped under workspace "categories" e.g. aWorkspaceTree +-aWorkspaceCategory - aSavedWorkspace - anotherSavedworkspace +-yetAnotherWorkSpaceCategory -yetAnotherSavedWorkspace .. + Greetings Ted On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 2 August 2011 19:52, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm reading with great joy, various pharo/smalltalk related books to get a
glimpse of what is available. I started with PBE and almost finished, then
the Seaside Tutorial by HPI and the Moose. I'm just browsing them and make
some things here and there using the Pharo image and workspaces to create
documentation. Now I'm reading the Master Thesis "Scripting Browsers with
Glamour" by Phillip Bunge and as I read about MVC this part:
Reenskaug, however, never intended for the breaking of encapsulation that
the pattern promotes. He wrote later that the âtop level goal was to support
the userâs mental model of the relevant information space and to enable the
user to inspect and edit this information.â
I think that I want the same: support my own mental model when I'm exploring
Pharo/Smalltalk. I have been a long user of Leo[1] mostly for documentation
related matters and I would like to have this kind of tree-like WorkSpace in
Pharo, instead of the plain one provided by default. So I will continue the
reading of the thesis, but I would like to know if there is any package that
can provide this support for my "leo alike mental of documentation" inside
Pharo. If this is not the case, I think that trying to create this
"TreeSpace" in replace of the usual WorkSpace will be my first projects.
[1] http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Please let me know any thoughts or advices about this idea.
I think you should take a look on Nautilus project (Ben, can you provide link/instructions?).
https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Nautilus/ :) The tree-based browser is Nautilus (Nautilus2 is more basic) If someone has some questions, I will be glad to answer :)
Ben
It using trees instead of lists to display contents in browser.
But i puzzled, what are use of trees in workspace? Maybe you meant browser? Because by looking at screenshots [1], it is closely similar to browser. Workspace in smalltalk is just a text editing area where you can type small snippets of code and then evaluate them. I see no way where trees could be of any use in workspace.
[1]http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/screen-shots.html
Cheers,
Offray
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
It's not really hard to do, but I do not really get why it's interesting to have such a behavior I mean, personally, when I use workspace, it's for junk programming (it write code quickly, test it) So usually, I test my code in a workspace before putting it into a method (or it was just for test, and I do not care anymore). But maybe you do not use the workspace the same way ;) Ben On Aug 2, 2011, at 9:52 PM, Ted F.A. van Gaalen wrote:
Hi there
Well, perhaps you like this idea (ideas are easier that programming, are they? :o)
what about a workspace with on the left a tree pane with in the tree: saved workspaces grouped under workspace "categories"
e.g.
aWorkspaceTree +-aWorkspaceCategory - aSavedWorkspace - anotherSavedworkspace +-yetAnotherWorkSpaceCategory -yetAnotherSavedWorkspace .. +
Greetings Ted
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 2 August 2011 19:52, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm reading with great joy, various pharo/smalltalk related books to get a
glimpse of what is available. I started with PBE and almost finished, then
the Seaside Tutorial by HPI and the Moose. I'm just browsing them and make
some things here and there using the Pharo image and workspaces to create
documentation. Now I'm reading the Master Thesis "Scripting Browsers with
Glamour" by Phillip Bunge and as I read about MVC this part:
Reenskaug, however, never intended for the breaking of encapsulation that
the pattern promotes. He wrote later that the âtop level goal was to support
the userâs mental model of the relevant information space and to enable the
user to inspect and edit this information.â
I think that I want the same: support my own mental model when I'm exploring
Pharo/Smalltalk. I have been a long user of Leo[1] mostly for documentation
related matters and I would like to have this kind of tree-like WorkSpace in
Pharo, instead of the plain one provided by default. So I will continue the
reading of the thesis, but I would like to know if there is any package that
can provide this support for my "leo alike mental of documentation" inside
Pharo. If this is not the case, I think that trying to create this
"TreeSpace" in replace of the usual WorkSpace will be my first projects.
[1] http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Please let me know any thoughts or advices about this idea.
I think you should take a look on Nautilus project (Ben, can you provide link/instructions?).
https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Nautilus/ :) The tree-based browser is Nautilus (Nautilus2 is more basic) If someone has some questions, I will be glad to answer :)
Ben
It using trees instead of lists to display contents in browser.
But i puzzled, what are use of trees in workspace? Maybe you meant browser? Because by looking at screenshots [1], it is closely similar to browser. Workspace in smalltalk is just a text editing area where you can type small snippets of code and then evaluate them. I see no way where trees could be of any use in workspace.
[1]http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/screen-shots.html
Cheers,
Offray
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
On 2 August 2011 21:58, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
It's not really hard to do, but I do not really get why it's interesting to have such a behavior
I mean, personally, when I use workspace, it's for junk programming (it write code quickly, test it) So usually, I test my code in a workspace before putting it into a method (or it was just for test, and I do not care anymore).
But maybe you do not use the workspace the same way ;)
Same for me. I treat workspace in same way - for "fire and forget" coding. So, personally, i don't feel much need for improving it and introducing more than it has. But well, providing the way for organizing multiple workspaces could be useful. For very organized persons :)
Ben
On Aug 2, 2011, at 9:52 PM, Ted F.A. van Gaalen wrote:
Hi there
Well, perhaps you like this idea (ideas are easier that programming, are they? :o)
what about a workspace with on the left a tree pane with in the tree: saved workspaces grouped under workspace "categories"
e.g.
aWorkspaceTree  +-aWorkspaceCategory  - aSavedWorkspace  - anotherSavedworkspace +-yetAnotherWorkSpaceCategory   -yetAnotherSavedWorkspace   .. +
Greetings Ted
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 2 August 2011 19:52, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm reading with great joy, various pharo/smalltalk related books to get a
glimpse of what is available. I started with PBE and almost finished, then
the Seaside Tutorial by HPI and the Moose. I'm just browsing them and make
some things here and there using the Pharo image and workspaces to create
documentation. Now I'm reading the Master Thesis "Scripting Browsers with
Glamour" by Phillip Bunge and as I read about MVC this part:
Reenskaug, however, never intended for the breaking of encapsulation that
the pattern promotes. He wrote later that the âtop level goal was to support
the userâs mental model of the relevant information space and to enable the
user to inspect and edit this information.â
I think that I want the same: support my own mental model when I'm exploring
Pharo/Smalltalk. I have been a long user of Leo[1] mostly for documentation
related matters and I would like to have this kind of tree-like WorkSpace in
Pharo, instead of the plain one provided by default. So I will continue the
reading of the thesis, but I would like to know if there is any package that
can provide this support for my "leo alike mental of documentation" inside
Pharo. If this is not the case, I think that trying to create this
"TreeSpace" in replace of the usual WorkSpace will be my first projects.
[1] http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Please let me know any thoughts or advices about this idea.
I think you should take a look on Nautilus project (Ben, can you provide link/instructions?).
https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Nautilus/ :) The tree-based browser is Nautilus (Nautilus2 is more basic) If someone has some questions, I will be glad to answer :)
Ben
It using trees instead of lists to display contents in browser.
But i puzzled, what are use of trees in workspace? Maybe you meant browser? Because by looking at screenshots [1], it is closely similar to browser. Workspace in smalltalk is just a text editing area where you can type small snippets of code and then evaluate them. I see no way where trees could be of any use in workspace.
[1]http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/screen-shots.html
Cheers,
Offray
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
S, Igor Stasenko piše:
But maybe you do not use the workspace the same way ;)
Same for me. I treat workspace in same way - for "fire and forget" coding. So, personally, i don't feel much need for improving it and introducing more than it has.
But well, providing the way for organizing multiple workspaces could be useful. For very organized persons :)
Introduce tabs to workspace, with possibility to name them. VisualWorks has that and I actually find that useful. Because some scripts you write are usefull later too, and many times, so it is not bad idea to save them soewhere. Not yet in some methods in some class, but simply on workspace. And to avoid clutter of workspace windows opened, tabs come again to rescue!
Ben
On Aug 2, 2011, at 9:52 PM, Ted F.A. van Gaalen wrote:
Hi there
Well, perhaps you like this idea (ideas are easier that programming, are they? :o)
what about a workspace with on the left a tree pane with in the tree: saved workspaces grouped under workspace "categories"
e.g.
aWorkspaceTree +-aWorkspaceCategory - aSavedWorkspace - anotherSavedworkspace +-yetAnotherWorkSpaceCategory -yetAnotherSavedWorkspace .. +
Greetings Ted
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 2 August 2011 19:52, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm reading with great joy, various pharo/smalltalk related books to get a
glimpse of what is available. I started with PBE and almost finished, then
the Seaside Tutorial by HPI and the Moose. I'm just browsing them and make
some things here and there using the Pharo image and workspaces to create
documentation. Now I'm reading the Master Thesis "Scripting Browsers with
Glamour" by Phillip Bunge and as I read about MVC this part:
Reenskaug, however, never intended for the breaking of encapsulation that
the pattern promotes. He wrote later that the âtop level goal was to support
the userâs mental model of the relevant information space and to enable the
user to inspect and edit this information.â
I think that I want the same: support my own mental model when I'm exploring
Pharo/Smalltalk. I have been a long user of Leo[1] mostly for documentation
related matters and I would like to have this kind of tree-like WorkSpace in
Pharo, instead of the plain one provided by default. So I will continue the
reading of the thesis, but I would like to know if there is any package that
can provide this support for my "leo alike mental of documentation" inside
Pharo. If this is not the case, I think that trying to create this
"TreeSpace" in replace of the usual WorkSpace will be my first projects.
[1] http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Please let me know any thoughts or advices about this idea.
I think you should take a look on Nautilus project (Ben, can you provide link/instructions?).
https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Nautilus/ :) The tree-based browser is Nautilus (Nautilus2 is more basic) If someone has some questions, I will be glad to answer :)
Ben
It using trees instead of lists to display contents in browser.
But i puzzled, what are use of trees in workspace? Maybe you meant browser? Because by looking at screenshots [1], it is closely similar to browser. Workspace in smalltalk is just a text editing area where you can type small snippets of code and then evaluate them. I see no way where trees could be of any use in workspace.
[1]http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/screen-shots.html
Cheers,
Offray
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
-- Janko Mivšek Svetovalec za informatiko Eranova d.o.o. Ljubljana, Slovenija www.eranova.si tel: 01 514 22 55 faks: 01 514 22 56 gsm: 031 674 565
Janko Mivšek wrote:
Because some scripts you write are usefull later too, and many times, so it is not bad idea to save them soewhere. Not yet in some methods in some class, but simply on workspace. And to avoid clutter of workspace windows opened, tabs come again to rescue!
You can also use Script Manager for this, which seems similar to what the OP requested. It's annoying to work in because there is no syntax highlighting, autocomplete, or smart ({" completion, but it works fine for saving and organizing snippets. HTH, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Tree-like-workspace-tp3713173p3715346.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Ted, I'm thinking in something like this. I will keep you posted. Cheers, Offray El 02/08/11 14:52, Ted F.A. van Gaalen escribió:
Hi there
Well, perhaps you like this idea (ideas are easier that programming, are they? :o)
what about a workspace with on the left a tree pane with in the tree: saved workspaces grouped under workspace "categories"
e.g.
aWorkspaceTree +-aWorkspaceCategory - aSavedWorkspace - anotherSavedworkspace +-yetAnotherWorkSpaceCategory -yetAnotherSavedWorkspace .. +
Greetings Ted
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 2 August 2011 19:52, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas<offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm reading with great joy, various pharo/smalltalk related books to get a
glimpse of what is available. I started with PBE and almost finished, then
the Seaside Tutorial by HPI and the Moose. I'm just browsing them and make
some things here and there using the Pharo image and workspaces to create
documentation. Now I'm reading the Master Thesis "Scripting Browsers with
Glamour" by Phillip Bunge and as I read about MVC this part:
Reenskaug, however, never intended for the breaking of encapsulation that
the pattern promotes. He wrote later that the âtop level goal was to support
the userâs mental model of the relevant information space and to enable the
user to inspect and edit this information.â
I think that I want the same: support my own mental model when I'm exploring
Pharo/Smalltalk. I have been a long user of Leo[1] mostly for documentation
related matters and I would like to have this kind of tree-like WorkSpace in
Pharo, instead of the plain one provided by default. So I will continue the
reading of the thesis, but I would like to know if there is any package that
can provide this support for my "leo alike mental of documentation" inside
Pharo. If this is not the case, I think that trying to create this
"TreeSpace" in replace of the usual WorkSpace will be my first projects.
[1] http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Please let me know any thoughts or advices about this idea.
I think you should take a look on Nautilus project (Ben, can you provide link/instructions?).
https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Nautilus/ :) The tree-based browser is Nautilus (Nautilus2 is more basic) If someone has some questions, I will be glad to answer :)
Ben
It using trees instead of lists to display contents in browser.
But i puzzled, what are use of trees in workspace? Maybe you meant browser? Because by looking at screenshots [1], it is closely similar to browser. Workspace in smalltalk is just a text editing area where you can type small snippets of code and then evaluate them. I see no way where trees could be of any use in workspace.
[1]http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/screen-shots.html
Cheers,
Offray
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Hi Igor, Thanks for your advice. El 02/08/11 13:04, Igor Stasenko escribió: [...]
I think you should take a look on Nautilus project (Ben, can you provide link/instructions?). It using trees instead of lists to display contents in browser.
[...] I will see Nautilus after reading more about Glamour.
But i puzzled, what are use of trees in workspace? Maybe you meant browser? Because by looking at screenshots [1], it is closely similar to browser. Workspace in smalltalk is just a text editing area where you can type small snippets of code and then evaluate them. I see no way where trees could be of any use in workspace.
The screenshot you find was for the use of Leo as a programming environment, but it can be also used for documentation using reStructuredText fluidly I'm kind of a compulsive documentator. I have used previously Leo mainly for documentation and not for programming because I'm not a programmer, but I think that is time to learn it and I want to do it with Pharo/Smalltalk (but keeping python in my belt anyway because of it uses in another fields of my interest). One of the things I like more about Leo is the fact that you can organize any kind of information in a integrated emergent tree and has a nice feature, called "Clones" so the same nodes in a tree can be put in an arbitrary place and be changed in synchrony, creating different ways of see the information inside the tree. In contrast with this experience, workspaces look and feel a lot plain. I'm using them to document my learning in Pharo/Smalltalk and I create different workspaces for this preliminary exploration: one for Seaside, one for Aida, One for Moose, and one for PBE. They include not only code snippets but also text, not the kind of text that you will put on classes of methods, but the one that you will put on a blog post, interchanging text and code snippets. Thats why I want to create a tree like workspace. I will keep you posted and made the usual newbie questions. Thanks, Offray
You should have a look at TreeMorph and friends. I'm sure that you can build a leo based system. The timeProfiler is also an example of how to use the TreeMorph Stef On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:52 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:
Hi all,
I'm reading with great joy, various pharo/smalltalk related books to get a glimpse of what is available. I started with PBE and almost finished, then the Seaside Tutorial by HPI and the Moose. I'm just browsing them and make some things here and there using the Pharo image and workspaces to create documentation. Now I'm reading the Master Thesis "Scripting Browsers with Glamour" by Phillip Bunge and as I read about MVC this part:
Reenskaug, however, never intended for the breaking of encapsulation that the pattern promotes. He wrote later that the âtop level goal was to support the userâs mental model of the relevant information space and to enable the user to inspect and edit this information.â
I think that I want the same: support my own mental model when I'm exploring Pharo/Smalltalk. I have been a long user of Leo[1] mostly for documentation related matters and I would like to have this kind of tree-like WorkSpace in Pharo, instead of the plain one provided by default. So I will continue the reading of the thesis, but I would like to know if there is any package that can provide this support for my "leo alike mental of documentation" inside Pharo. If this is not the case, I think that trying to create this "TreeSpace" in replace of the usual WorkSpace will be my first projects.
[1] http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Please let me know any thoughts or advices about this idea.
Cheers,
Offray
Hi, El 02/08/11 15:08, Stéphane Ducasse escribió:
You should have a look at TreeMorph and friends. I'm sure that you can build a leo based system. The timeProfiler is also an example of how to use the TreeMorph Stef
Thanks. As a newbie, I think that I'm not quite ready to browse the classes and methods and start from there, so I will use Glamour and the thesis from Phillip Bunge as an starting point for this exploration, putting questions here when they come. Having comprehensive documentation is a good thing for any complex tool we want to learn and is a joy to read things like PBE, Seaside Tutorial and the Glamour Thesis. I hope to read most docs like these and hopefully help also with its creation. Cheers, Offray Ps: there also a lot of good blogs in the Smalltalk noosphere. May be in the links of the Pharo page we should put this social part of the project and community.
participants (7)
-
Benjamin -
Igor Stasenko -
Janko Mivšek -
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Ted F.A. van Gaalen