Hello, I reported a bug I found in https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10849_d0g95e46s78671vi The issue was closed in fogbugz. I couldn't really figure out why, until I looked at Penelope to find out that bug was considered a duplicate. I had a hard time finding that information and the information on the duplicate (I could figure it out yesterday night, but can't reproduce the way to find the information today). From what I understood yesterday, this bug is supposed to be fixed in Pharo-3.0? The images that are offered for downloading seem to all include this bug. I have a notebook with ubuntu-13.04 and 8GB RAM, of which around 7GB are used for hard disk caching. As far as I understood from reading the bug tracking entries, heavy caching triggers the bug earlier? Anyhow, with this bug, the changes file gets garbaged (or, at least, the pointers to it) and the image is unuseable. Abandoning the RemoteString error message looks to the user as if the issue wasn't all that bad, but is a nuclear attack on the image soon to come. Correct me if I am wrong please. About issue tracking: is the process closed to the public on purpose? I have to admit I misused the google code bugtracker in the past, because I reported an incident from the user point of view and later learned, that the bug reporting & fixing process was meant to be used only from a developers perspective. When I have a "user" issue - am I supposed to report to the mailing list instead and an issue will be created by the pharo core team? Kind regards, Markus
On Jun 7, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I reported a bug I found in https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10849_d0g95e46s78671vi
The issue was closed in fogbugz. I couldn't really figure out why, until I looked at Penelope to find out that bug was considered a duplicate.
Normally I thought that fogbugz should send you updates on bugs you reported? We need to check that.
I had a hard time finding that information and the information on the duplicate (I could figure it out yesterday night, but can't reproduce the way to find the information today). From what I understood yesterday, this bug is supposed to be fixed in Pharo-3.0?
In this case, we have fixed in in 3.0 and 2.0 (the bug as a "Parent Case" for 2.0, this was decided in the discussion and done). We often fix things first in 3.0 to test and then fix it in 2.0 so we are sure the fix works.
The images that are offered for downloading seem to all include this bug.
The problem is that the 2.0 files referenced directly on pharo-project.org are pointing to the last *release*, while the fixes we do in 2.0 are only in the nightly builds that you can find on http://files.pharo.org/image/20/ for example I already was thinking that this is a problem, we need to discuss what to do. Maybe we should instead have pharo-project.org point on the latest 2.0?
Anyhow, with this bug, the changes file gets garbaged (or, at least, the pointers to it) and the image is unuseable. Abandoning the RemoteString error message looks to the user as if the issue wasn't all that bad, but is a nuclear attack on the image soon to come.
So there are two problems: 1) the "RemoteString past end of file" on recent linux. 2) Something strange happens sometimes that reading the source fails. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/7559/Plugins-Primitives-no-longer-work-aft... (it has a parent case for 2.0)
About issue tracking: is the process closed to the public on purpose?
FugBugz does not allow read access for anonymous users. We *really* don't like this but it can't be changed. That is why we added bugs.pharo.org where you can get an account immediately *and* view all issues Maybe this is not enough and we need to abandon Fogbugz because it just is "too closed"?
I have to admit I misused the google code bugtracker in the past, because I reported an incident from the user point of view and later learned, that the bug reporting & fixing process was meant to be used only from a developers perspective.
Not reallyâ¦. but it is difficult to do both in the same system. Maybe we need two bug trackers? One for bugs and one to funnel through improvements and fixes?
When I have a "user" issue - am I supposed to report to the mailing list instead and an issue will be created by the pharo core team?
No, normally the idea is that people should report bug entires. But one thing that is always a problem is man-power: Not many people look at the bug tracker. (To me it always feels as if I am the only oneâ¦). This means in turn, we need to sometimes deal with bugs in a way that might not be perfect. The only way to make it better is if more people share the load. I don't see any other way. Marcus
Hello Marcus & List, On 07.06.2013 10:44, Marcus Denker wrote:
Normally I thought that fogbugz should send you updates on bugs you reported? We need to check that. I got one mail with an URL that I could check for updates... In this case, we have fixed in in 3.0 and 2.0 (the bug as a "Parent Case" for 2.0, this was decided in the discussion and done). We often fix things first in 3.0 to test and then fix it in 2.0 so we are sure the fix works. Thank you for explaining. I admit it was late yesterday ;-) So there are two problems:
1) the "RemoteString past end of file" on recent linux.
2) Something strange happens sometimes that reading the source fails.
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/7559/Plugins-Primitives-no-longer-work-aft... (it has a parent case for 2.0) Can you link to Penelope about the second issue? I'd like to help hunt these two since ubuntu-13.04 is my primary system on a few machines, big to small. FugBugz does not allow read access for anonymous users. We *really* don't like this but it can't be changed. That is why we added bugs.pharo.org where you can get an account immediately *and* view all issues Penelope only lists active bugs? As far as I see, it doesn't have a full text search - that would probably make things more simple. No, normally the idea is that people should report bug entires. Ok, thanks for clarification. I wasn't sure after poking around a bit.
Kind regards, Markus
On Jun 7, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus@gmail.com> wrote:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/7559/Plugins-Primitives-no-longer-work-aft... (it has a parent case for 2.0)
Can you link to Penelope about the second issue? I'd like to help hunt these two since ubuntu-13.04 is my primary system on a few machines, big to small.
Sadly not because of 10157 http://bugs.pharo.org is not in sync with FogBugz https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10157/http-bugs-pharo-org-is-not-in-sync-w...
FugBugz does not allow read access for anonymous users. We *really* don't like this but it can't be changed. That is why we added bugs.pharo.org where you can get an account immediately *and* view all issues Penelope only lists active bugs?
Normally that is the idea, yes.
As far as I see, it doesn't have a full text search - that would probably make things more simple.
Yes, the problem is that man power is limited and even though we really really want all these things, the sad reality is that they are only done when they are done. I have not found any other solution than to do, one tiny trivial step at a time... Marcus
On 2013-06-07, at 11:20, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Marcus & List,
On 07.06.2013 10:44, Marcus Denker wrote:
Normally I thought that fogbugz should send you updates on bugs you reported? We need to check that. I got one mail with an URL that I could check for updates... In this case, we have fixed in in 3.0 and 2.0 (the bug as a "Parent Case" for 2.0, this was decided in the discussion and done). We often fix things first in 3.0 to test and then fix it in 2.0 so we are sure the fix works. Thank you for explaining. I admit it was late yesterday ;-) So there are two problems:
1) the "RemoteString past end of file" on recent linux.
2) Something strange happens sometimes that reading the source fails.
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/7559/Plugins-Primitives-no-longer-work-aft... (it has a parent case for 2.0) Can you link to Penelope about the second issue? I'd like to help hunt these two since ubuntu-13.04 is my primary system on a few machines, big to small.
you can register on the penelope page. avoid the dot in your gmail address (BTW: gmail ignores the dots anyway. you can put as many dots as you want and still receive mails).
On Jun 7, 2013, at 11:28 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2013-06-07, at 11:20, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Marcus & List,
On 07.06.2013 10:44, Marcus Denker wrote:
Normally I thought that fogbugz should send you updates on bugs you reported? We need to check that. I got one mail with an URL that I could check for updates... In this case, we have fixed in in 3.0 and 2.0 (the bug as a "Parent Case" for 2.0, this was decided in the discussion and done). We often fix things first in 3.0 to test and then fix it in 2.0 so we are sure the fix works. Thank you for explaining. I admit it was late yesterday ;-) So there are two problems:
1) the "RemoteString past end of file" on recent linux.
2) Something strange happens sometimes that reading the source fails.
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/7559/Plugins-Primitives-no-longer-work-aft... (it has a parent case for 2.0) Can you link to Penelope about the second issue? I'd like to help hunt these two since ubuntu-13.04 is my primary system on a few machines, big to small.
you can register on the penelope page. avoid the dot in your gmail address (BTW: gmail ignores the dots anyway. you can put as many dots as you want and still receive mails).
We should add a bug tracker entry for that, too. Marcus
On 07.06.2013 11:27, Camillo Bruni wrote:
you can register on the penelope page. avoid the dot in your gmail address (BTW: gmail ignores the dots anyway. you can put as many dots as you want and still receive mails). Ah, thanks - I think I used that form before with the dot.
When should I consider myself being a monkey? Kind regards, Markus
On Jun 7, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus@gmail.com> wrote:
On 07.06.2013 11:27, Camillo Bruni wrote:
you can register on the penelope page. avoid the dot in your gmail address (BTW: gmail ignores the dots anyway. you can put as many dots as you want and still receive mails). Ah, thanks - I think I used that form before with the dot.
When should I consider myself being a monkey?
When you are a machine⦠the idea is that is a trivial captcha. Maybe too complex even for humans;-) Marcus
Marcus Denker-4 wrote
Normally I thought that fogbugz should send you updates on bugs you reported? We need to check that.
There's a plugin [1] but it requires the user to enable the preference. Maybe there's a way to enable globally by default... [1] http://forum.world.st/Auto-Subscribe-in-Fogbugz-td4690614.html ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Changes-File-caching-tp4692080p4692174.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Markus, On 07 Jun 2013, at 10:26, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I reported a bug I found in https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10849_d0g95e46s78671vi
The issue was closed in fogbugz. I couldn't really figure out why, until I looked at Penelope to find out that bug was considered a duplicate.
Yes, I closed the bug because it was a duplicate.
I had a hard time finding that information and the information on the duplicate (I could figure it out yesterday night, but can't reproduce the way to find the information today). From what I understood yesterday, this bug is supposed to be fixed in Pharo-3.0?
The images that are offered for downloading seem to all include this bug. I have a notebook with ubuntu-13.04 and 8GB RAM, of which around 7GB are used for hard disk caching. As far as I understood from reading the bug tracking entries, heavy caching triggers the bug earlier?
Anyhow, with this bug, the changes file gets garbaged (or, at least, the pointers to it) and the image is unuseable. Abandoning the RemoteString error message looks to the user as if the issue wasn't all that bad, but is a nuclear attack on the image soon to come.
Correct me if I am wrong please.
Yes, it is an important problem (but the trigger is a change in Ubuntu 13.04). I am not an Ubuntu desktop user, I can only hope that those who are will help.
About issue tracking: is the process closed to the public on purpose? I have to admit I misused the google code bugtracker in the past, because I reported an incident from the user point of view and later learned, that the bug reporting & fixing process was meant to be used only from a developers perspective.
When I have a "user" issue - am I supposed to report to the mailing list instead and an issue will be created by the pharo core team?
Kind regards, Markus
Pharo is open source and developed in the open, after the switch to Fogzbug things are not yet perfect: it is too hard for casual users. This will improve slowly. Rest assured: you are helping a lot by reporting issues from a user perspective ! Thanks, keep pushing ! Sven
Hello Sven & List, On 07.06.2013 10:45, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
Yes, it is an important problem (but the trigger is a change in Ubuntu 13.04). I am not an Ubuntu desktop user, I can only hope that those who are will help. Well, I have 13.04 on a few laptops (2GB Atom netbook, 8GB i7 dual core and 6GB AMD 4Core) with different file systems (ext4, btrfs) on them, so I have quite a few configurations at hand to test with.
The RemoteString-Error during updates has been fixed; as I see the files referenced by the download links have been replaced. The only "old" image left I found was the one titled "Pharo 2.0 image" on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download which raises the error in ScriptLoaderupdate>>#20605
On 07 Jun 2013, at 11:07, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Sven & List,
On 07.06.2013 10:45, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
Yes, it is an important problem (but the trigger is a change in Ubuntu 13.04). I am not an Ubuntu desktop user, I can only hope that those who are will help. Well, I have 13.04 on a few laptops (2GB Atom netbook, 8GB i7 dual core and 6GB AMD 4Core) with different file systems (ext4, btrfs) on them, so I have quite a few configurations at hand to test with.
Great, we need more Linux Desktop users, the community it too Mac centric ;-)
The RemoteString-Error during updates has been fixed; as I see the files referenced by the download links have been replaced. The only "old" image left I found was the one titled "Pharo 2.0 image" on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download which raises the error in ScriptLoaderupdate>>#20605
We need to fix that then. Thanks for the feedback. Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org
On Jun 7, 2013, at 11:14 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 07 Jun 2013, at 11:07, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Sven & List,
On 07.06.2013 10:45, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
Yes, it is an important problem (but the trigger is a change in Ubuntu 13.04). I am not an Ubuntu desktop user, I can only hope that those who are will help. Well, I have 13.04 on a few laptops (2GB Atom netbook, 8GB i7 dual core and 6GB AMD 4Core) with different file systems (ext4, btrfs) on them, so I have quite a few configurations at hand to test with.
Great, we need more Linux Desktop users, the community it too Mac centric ;-)
+1 I'm waiting that mac gets totally evil to switch :)
The RemoteString-Error during updates has been fixed; as I see the files referenced by the download links have been replaced. The only "old" image left I found was the one titled "Pharo 2.0 image" on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download which raises the error in ScriptLoaderupdate>>#20605
We need to fix that then.
Thanks for the feedback.
Sven
-- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org
On 07 Jun 2013, at 19:45, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
On Jun 7, 2013, at 11:14 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 07 Jun 2013, at 11:07, Markus Fritsche <fritsche.markus@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Sven & List,
On 07.06.2013 10:45, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
Yes, it is an important problem (but the trigger is a change in Ubuntu 13.04). I am not an Ubuntu desktop user, I can only hope that those who are will help. Well, I have 13.04 on a few laptops (2GB Atom netbook, 8GB i7 dual core and 6GB AMD 4Core) with different file systems (ext4, btrfs) on them, so I have quite a few configurations at hand to test with.
Great, we need more Linux Desktop users, the community it too Mac centric ;-)
+1 I'm waiting that mac gets totally evil to switch :)
If you would switch and force a good UX, all Pharo users on Linux will thank you for it ;-)
The RemoteString-Error during updates has been fixed; as I see the files referenced by the download links have been replaced. The only "old" image left I found was the one titled "Pharo 2.0 image" on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download which raises the error in ScriptLoaderupdate>>#20605
We need to fix that then.
Thanks for the feedback.
Sven
-- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org
participants (6)
-
Camillo Bruni -
Marcus Denker -
Markus Fritsche -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Sven Van Caekenberghe