Pharo for MacOs 10.6.8?
I am trying to find a version of Pharo that would run on an old Mac Powerbook that cannot be upgraded past 10.6.8, but I 'm having no luck. Any suggestions on what I should download? Cheers, Stefano -- __________________________________________________ Stefano Franchi stefano.franchi@gmail.com <stefano@tamu.edu> http://stefano.cleinias.org
Did you check http://get.pharo.org because we keep everything. stef On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 4:30 AM, stefano franchi <stefano.franchi@gmail.com> wrote:
I am trying to find a version of Pharo that would run on an old Mac Powerbook that cannot be upgraded past 10.6.8, but I 'm having no luck.
Any suggestions on what I should download?
Cheers,
Stefano -- __________________________________________________ Stefano Franchi
stefano.franchi@gmail.com http://stefano.cleinias.org
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you check
because we keep everything.
Apologies for not having stated my question more precisely. Indeed, I started from get.pharo.org, but the zeroconf script did not guess right. The app it downloaded crashes at startup. Then I saw the *long* list of versions available and had no idea where to begin. So my real question is: Does anyone know which among the many VMs available on http://get.pharo.org would work on a MacOs Powerbook Pro running 10.6.9? It was the latest 32 bit only machine Apple made, based on the Intel Core Duo (NOT the Intel Core 2 Duo that came out a few months later). Thanks, Stefano
stef
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 4:30 AM, stefano franchi <stefano.franchi@gmail.com> wrote:
I am trying to find a version of Pharo that would run on an old Mac Powerbook that cannot be upgraded past 10.6.8, but I 'm having no luck.
Any suggestions on what I should download?
Cheers,
Stefano -- __________________________________________________ Stefano Franchi
stefano.franchi@gmail.com http://stefano.cleinias.org
-- __________________________________________________ Stefano Franchi stefano.franchi@gmail.com <stefano@tamu.edu> http://stefano.cleinias.org
On 5 Mar 2018, at 20:16, stefano franchi <stefano.franchi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com>> wrote: Did you check
http://get.pharo.org <http://get.pharo.org/>
because we keep everything.
Apologies for not having stated my question more precisely. Indeed, I started from get.pharo.org <http://get.pharo.org/>, but the zeroconf script did not guess right. The app it downloaded crashes at startup. Then I saw the *long* list of versions available and had no idea where to begin. So my real question is:
Does anyone know which among the many VMs available on http://get.pharo.org <http://get.pharo.org/> would work on a MacOs Powerbook Pro running 10.6.9? It was the latest 32 bit only machine Apple made, based on the Intel Core Duo (NOT the Intel Core 2 Duo that came out a few months later).
you could look for old VMs and downloads here: http://files.pharo.org/ But it is quite hard to for us (with our limited man power) to support old machines forever⦠e.g the vm from that time should run, but at some point the VM gets improved and newer images require a newer VM as we want to actually use the features that new VMs provide. Keeping everything compatible in all possible directions (old images on new VMs, new image on old VMs â¦) puts quite some constraints on what you can do in future⦠an maintaining new VMs for all possible old MacOS versions could soon just use up all our manpower. So this is not a simple problem to solve. Even very financially capable projects (like Mozilla) can not support old MacOS versions. And they spend 150K per *month* just on CI infrastructure⦠imagine if they decide to not support anything older then MaOS 10.9⦠can we? should we? There are things to do on this front, but if I would spend effort the first thing I would work on is running *old* images on *new* VMs and explore what kind of abstraction would be needed to to that nicely and in a way that it can be maintained and in a way that all the needed code ( e.g. translation byte code from old to new) would be not part of the VM but part of the image. Making sure to run *current* images on old Machines can only be done by backporting the current VM to the old OS. This should be not that hard, worst case is that you need to combine some old OS related code with the rest of the new VM, but that should not be much. But one question: Considering what developer time costs⦠I am quite sure that it is cheaper to just buy a current Mac. Marcus
hi, I would say get.pharo.org/30+vm <http://get.pharo.org/30+vm> or get.pharo.org/20+vm <http://get.pharo.org/30+vm> one of both should work. there is also a chance that get.pharo.org/40+vm <http://get.pharo.org/30+vm> ⦠will work, but you need to try it ;) Esteban ps: but as Marcus say, it will be an older image and an older VM. Still very usable (as it *was* usable at the time), but not the fresh stuff :)
On 6 Mar 2018, at 08:47, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2018, at 20:16, stefano franchi <stefano.franchi@gmail.com <mailto:stefano.franchi@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com>> wrote: Did you check
http://get.pharo.org <http://get.pharo.org/>
because we keep everything.
Apologies for not having stated my question more precisely. Indeed, I started from get.pharo.org <http://get.pharo.org/>, but the zeroconf script did not guess right. The app it downloaded crashes at startup. Then I saw the *long* list of versions available and had no idea where to begin. So my real question is:
Does anyone know which among the many VMs available on http://get.pharo.org <http://get.pharo.org/> would work on a MacOs Powerbook Pro running 10.6.9? It was the latest 32 bit only machine Apple made, based on the Intel Core Duo (NOT the Intel Core 2 Duo that came out a few months later).
you could look for old VMs and downloads here: http://files.pharo.org/ <http://files.pharo.org/>
But it is quite hard to for us (with our limited man power) to support old machines forever⦠e.g the vm from that time should run, but at some point the VM gets improved and newer images require a newer VM as we want to actually use the features that new VMs provide.
Keeping everything compatible in all possible directions (old images on new VMs, new image on old VMs â¦) puts quite some constraints on what you can do in future⦠an maintaining new VMs for all possible old MacOS versions could soon just use up all our manpower.
So this is not a simple problem to solve. Even very financially capable projects (like Mozilla) can not support old MacOS versions. And they spend 150K per *month* just on CI infrastructure⦠imagine if they decide to not support anything older then MaOS 10.9⦠can we? should we?
There are things to do on this front, but if I would spend effort the first thing I would work on is running *old* images on *new* VMs and explore what kind of abstraction would be needed to to that nicely and in a way that it can be maintained and in a way that all the needed code ( e.g. translation byte code from old to new) would be not part of the VM but part of the image.
Making sure to run *current* images on old Machines can only be done by backporting the current VM to the old OS. This should be not that hard, worst case is that you need to combine some old OS related code with the rest of the new VM, but that should not be much.
But one question: Considering what developer time costs⦠I am quite sure that it is cheaper to just buy a current Mac.
Marcus
Thanks Esteban, 30 works indeed. I haven't had a chance to try 40, will try it tonight. Cheers, Stefano On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 3:41 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
hi,
I would say
get.pharo.org/30+vm
or
get.pharo.org/20+vm <http://get.pharo.org/30+vm>
one of both should work. there is also a chance that
get.pharo.org/40+vm <http://get.pharo.org/30+vm>
⦠will work, but you need to try it ;)
Esteban
ps: but as Marcus say, it will be an older image and an older VM. Still very usable (as it *was* usable at the time), but not the fresh stuff :)
On 6 Mar 2018, at 08:47, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2018, at 20:16, stefano franchi <stefano.franchi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com
wrote:
Did you check
because we keep everything.
Apologies for not having stated my question more precisely. Indeed, I started from get.pharo.org, but the zeroconf script did not guess right. The app it downloaded crashes at startup. Then I saw the *long* list of versions available and had no idea where to begin. So my real question is:
Does anyone know which among the many VMs available on http://get.pharo.org would work on a MacOs Powerbook Pro running 10.6.9? It was the latest 32 bit only machine Apple made, based on the Intel Core Duo (NOT the Intel Core 2 Duo that came out a few months later).
you could look for old VMs and downloads here: http://files.pharo.org/
But it is quite hard to for us (with our limited man power) to support old machines forever⦠e.g the vm from that time should run, but at some point the VM gets improved and newer images require a newer VM as we want to actually use the features that new VMs provide.
Keeping everything compatible in all possible directions (old images on new VMs, new image on old VMs â¦) puts quite some constraints on what you can do in future⦠an maintaining new VMs for all possible old MacOS versions could soon just use up all our manpower.
So this is not a simple problem to solve. Even very financially capable projects (like Mozilla) can not support old MacOS versions. And they spend 150K per *month* just on CI infrastructure⦠imagine if they decide to not support anything older then MaOS 10.9⦠can we? should we?
There are things to do on this front, but if I would spend effort the first thing I would work on is running *old* images on *new* VMs and explore what kind of abstraction would be needed to to that nicely and in a way that it can be maintained and in a way that all the needed code ( e.g. translation byte code from old to new) would be not part of the VM but part of the image.
Making sure to run *current* images on old Machines can only be done by backporting the current VM to the old OS. This should be not that hard, worst case is that you need to combine some old OS related code with the rest of the new VM, but that should not be much.
But one question: Considering what developer time costs⦠I am quite sure that it is cheaper to just buy a current Mac.
Marcus
-- __________________________________________________ Stefano Franchi stefano.franchi@gmail.com <stefano@tamu.edu> http://stefano.cleinias.org
EstebanLM wrote
get.pharo.org/30+vm <http://get.pharo.org/30+vm>;
And if you prefer a GUI over the command line, Launcher automatically downloads images pretty far back (I just confirmed that 1.4 works on a MBP 2017) and matches them up to the correct VM. One caveat: if the image is very old (e.g. the 1.4 above), Launcher will hang when you try to run the DLed image with a "determining correct VM for imageâ¦" dialog. The solution is simple: create a `pharo.version` text file in the image folder with `majorVersionNumber asString, minorVersionNumber asString` (e.g. for Pharo 1.4 -> '14'). That will tell Launcher which VM to use. I happily use Launcher for all my development images. HTH ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
On 7 Mar 2018, at 22:55, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
EstebanLM wrote
get.pharo.org/30+vm <http://get.pharo.org/30+vm>;
And if you prefer a GUI over the command line, Launcher automatically downloads images pretty far back (I just confirmed that 1.4 works on a MBP 2017) and matches them up to the correct VM. One caveat: if the image is very old (e.g. the 1.4 above), Launcher will hang when you try to run the DLed image with a "determining correct VM for imageâ¦" dialog. The solution is simple: create a `pharo.version` text file in the image folder with `majorVersionNumber asString, minorVersionNumber asString` (e.g. for Pharo 1.4 -> '14'). That will tell Launcher which VM to use. I happily use Launcher for all my development images. HTH
just... launcher itself will not work on those machines since is based in Pharo 6.1 ;) Esteban
----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
EstebanLM wrote
just... launcher itself will not work on those machines since is based in Pharo 6.1 ;)
Ah, good point! he he ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Dear Marcus, thanks for the detailed answer. Let me say that my question did not in any ways imply that Pharo should assume the burden of maintaining current images and VMs on old machines. My goal was (is) simply to find out whether it was possible to repurpose a number old machines I have laying around by installing *old* versions of Pharo. And I now have a positive answer, having installed vm30 and verified that it works perfectly. In fact, I think adding a few lines to the website listing the last supported version for the major MacOs releases would be a valuable addition and nicely complement your commendable policy of keeping everything. All the best, Stefano On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2018, at 20:16, stefano franchi <stefano.franchi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com
wrote:
Did you check
because we keep everything.
Apologies for not having stated my question more precisely. Indeed, I started from get.pharo.org, but the zeroconf script did not guess right. The app it downloaded crashes at startup. Then I saw the *long* list of versions available and had no idea where to begin. So my real question is:
Does anyone know which among the many VMs available on http://get.pharo.org would work on a MacOs Powerbook Pro running 10.6.9? It was the latest 32 bit only machine Apple made, based on the Intel Core Duo (NOT the Intel Core 2 Duo that came out a few months later).
you could look for old VMs and downloads here: http://files.pharo.org/
But it is quite hard to for us (with our limited man power) to support old machines forever⦠e.g the vm from that time should run, but at some point the VM gets improved and newer images require a newer VM as we want to actually use the features that new VMs provide.
Keeping everything compatible in all possible directions (old images on new VMs, new image on old VMs â¦) puts quite some constraints on what you can do in future⦠an maintaining new VMs for all possible old MacOS versions could soon just use up all our manpower.
So this is not a simple problem to solve. Even very financially capable projects (like Mozilla) can not support old MacOS versions. And they spend 150K per *month* just on CI infrastructure⦠imagine if they decide to not support anything older then MaOS 10.9⦠can we? should we?
There are things to do on this front, but if I would spend effort the first thing I would work on is running *old* images on *new* VMs and explore what kind of abstraction would be needed to to that nicely and in a way that it can be maintained and in a way that all the needed code ( e.g. translation byte code from old to new) would be not part of the VM but part of the image.
Making sure to run *current* images on old Machines can only be done by backporting the current VM to the old OS. This should be not that hard, worst case is that you need to combine some old OS related code with the rest of the new VM, but that should not be much.
But one question: Considering what developer time costs⦠I am quite sure that it is cheaper to just buy a current Mac.
Marcus
-- __________________________________________________ Stefano Franchi stefano.franchi@gmail.com <stefano@tamu.edu> http://stefano.cleinias.org
+1 Sent from my iPhone Encrypted email at jgpfersich@protonmail.com
On Mar 7, 2018, at 07:14, stefano franchi <stefano.franchi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Marcus,
thanks for the detailed answer.
Let me say that my question did not in any ways imply that Pharo should assume the burden of maintaining current images and VMs on old machines. My goal was (is) simply to find out whether it was possible to repurpose a number old machines I have laying around by installing *old* versions of Pharo. And I now have a positive answer, having installed vm30 and verified that it works perfectly.
In fact, I think adding a few lines to the website listing the last supported version for the major MacOs releases would be a valuable addition and nicely complement your commendable policy of keeping everything.
All the best,
Stefano
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 5 Mar 2018, at 20:16, stefano franchi <stefano.franchi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you check
because we keep everything.
Apologies for not having stated my question more precisely. Indeed, I started from get.pharo.org, but the zeroconf script did not guess right. The app it downloaded crashes at startup. Then I saw the *long* list of versions available and had no idea where to begin. So my real question is:
Does anyone know which among the many VMs available on http://get.pharo.org would work on a MacOs Powerbook Pro running 10.6.9? It was the latest 32 bit only machine Apple made, based on the Intel Core Duo (NOT the Intel Core 2 Duo that came out a few months later).
you could look for old VMs and downloads here: http://files.pharo.org/
But it is quite hard to for us (with our limited man power) to support old machines forever⦠e.g the vm from that time should run, but at some point the VM gets improved and newer images require a newer VM as we want to actually use the features that new VMs provide.
Keeping everything compatible in all possible directions (old images on new VMs, new image on old VMs â¦) puts quite some constraints on what you can do in future⦠an maintaining new VMs for all possible old MacOS versions could soon just use up all our manpower.
So this is not a simple problem to solve. Even very financially capable projects (like Mozilla) can not support old MacOS versions. And they spend 150K per *month* just on CI infrastructure⦠imagine if they decide to not support anything older then MaOS 10.9⦠can we? should we?
There are things to do on this front, but if I would spend effort the first thing I would work on is running *old* images on *new* VMs and explore what kind of abstraction would be needed to to that nicely and in a way that it can be maintained and in a way that all the needed code ( e.g. translation byte code from old to new) would be not part of the VM but part of the image.
Making sure to run *current* images on old Machines can only be done by backporting the current VM to the old OS. This should be not that hard, worst case is that you need to combine some old OS related code with the rest of the new VM, but that should not be much.
But one question: Considering what developer time costs⦠I am quite sure that it is cheaper to just buy a current Mac.
Marcus
-- __________________________________________________ Stefano Franchi
stefano.franchi@gmail.com http://stefano.cleinias.org
participants (6)
-
Esteban Lorenzano -
john pfersich -
Marcus Denker -
Sean P. DeNigris -
stefano franchi -
Stephane Ducasse