Hi list! I think I finally can start a small in-house project in Pharo, which makes me quite happy since I've been willing to do so for some time now. I have however to solve an issue before: is there a way of using native windows instead of the emulated ones? The app I have to work on is pretty much based on having different independent windows floating around :( . I saw the Native Windows thread that dates back to 2009 and couldn't find more information on the subject, so any pointers are much appreciated. Thanks in advance! Andrés
Check out the Mars project. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Native-Windows-in-Pharo-tp3071794p3071809.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Thanks for the quick response Sean, but I'm looking for a cross-platform solution and as far as I can see Mars is targeted at mac. Also, just to be clear, I don't need native widgets or deep OS integration, just the ability to open Pharo GUIs in separate native windows. Cheers, Andrés Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Check out the Mars project.
Sean
On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:57 PM, andres wrote:
Thanks for the quick response Sean, but I'm looking for a cross-platform solution and as far as I can see Mars is targeted at mac. Also, just to be clear, I don't need native widgets or deep OS integration, just the ability to open Pharo GUIs in separate native windows.
so far this is not possible. There was ffenstraria but it was never push to the point where we could use it.
Cheers, Andrés
Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Check out the Mars project. Sean
what about using Seaside XUL ? I remember Esteban Lorenzano doing a desktop app that way in Pharo. Cheers Mariano On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>wrote:
On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:57 PM, andres wrote:
Thanks for the quick response Sean, but I'm looking for a cross-platform solution and as far as I can see Mars is targeted at mac. Also, just to be clear, I don't need native widgets or deep OS integration, just the ability to open Pharo GUIs in separate native windows.
so far this is not possible. There was ffenstraria but it was never push to the point where we could use it.
Cheers, Andrés
Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Check out the Mars project. Sean
Thanks for the pointer Mariano. I'll check it out. Cheers, Andrés Mariano Martinez Peck escribió:
what about using Seaside XUL ? I remember Esteban Lorenzano doing a desktop app that way in Pharo.
Cheers
Mariano
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>wrote:
On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:57 PM, andres wrote:
Thanks for the quick response Sean, but I'm looking for a cross-platform solution and as far as I can see Mars is targeted at mac. Also, just to be clear, I don't need native widgets or deep OS integration, just the ability to open Pharo GUIs in separate native windows.
so far this is not possible. There was ffenstraria but it was never push to the point where we could use it.
Cheers, Andrés
Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Check out the Mars project. Sean
Ok, I see. Is there a "wishlist" associated with Pharo? Something like http://feedback.assembla.com/? thanks! Andrés Stéphane Ducasse escribió:
On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:57 PM, andres wrote:
Thanks for the quick response Sean, but I'm looking for a cross-platform solution and as far as I can see Mars is targeted at mac. Also, just to be clear, I don't need native widgets or deep OS integration, just the ability to open Pharo GUIs in separate native windows.
so far this is not possible. There was ffenstraria but it was never push to the point where we could use it.
Cheers, Andrés
Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Check out the Mars project. Sean
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:47 PM, andres <andres@lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar>wrote:
Ok, I see. Is there a "wishlist" associated with Pharo? Something like http://feedback.assembla.com/?
There are some related pages in http://code.google.com/p/pharo/w/list For exampple: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/IdeasToImplement cheers mariano
thanks! Andrés
Stéphane Ducasse escribió:
On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:57 PM, andres wrote:
Thanks for the quick response Sean, but I'm looking for a cross-platform
solution and as far as I can see Mars is targeted at mac. Also, just to be clear, I don't need native widgets or deep OS integration, just the ability to open Pharo GUIs in separate native windows.
so far this is not possible. There was ffenstraria but it was never push to the point where we could use it.
Cheers,
Andrés
Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Check out the Mars project. Sean
Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity). Thanks! Andrés Mariano Martinez Peck escribió:
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:47 PM, andres <andres@lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar>wrote:
Ok, I see. Is there a "wishlist" associated with Pharo? Something like http://feedback.assembla.com/?
There are some related pages in http://code.google.com/p/pharo/w/list
For exampple: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/IdeasToImplement
cheers
mariano
thanks! Andrés
Stéphane Ducasse escribió:
On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:57 PM, andres wrote:
Thanks for the quick response Sean, but I'm looking for a cross-platform
solution and as far as I can see Mars is targeted at mac. Also, just to be clear, I don't need native widgets or deep OS integration, just the ability to open Pharo GUIs in separate native windows.
so far this is not possible. There was ffenstraria but it was never push to the point where we could use it.
Cheers,
Andrés
Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Check out the Mars project. Sean
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:39 PM, andres <andres@lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar>wrote:
Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity).
well...no, we don't have a "survey" but that list was build with users requests in the mailing list. But maybe having a survay would be a good idea. cheers mariano
Thanks!
Andrés
Mariano Martinez Peck escribió:
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:47 PM, andres <andres@lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar
wrote:
Ok, I see. Is there a "wishlist" associated with Pharo? Something like
http://feedback.assembla.com/?
There are some related pages in http://code.google.com/p/pharo/w/list
For exampple: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/IdeasToImplement
cheers
mariano
thanks!
Andrés
Stéphane Ducasse escribió:
On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:57 PM, andres wrote:
Thanks for the quick response Sean, but I'm looking for a cross-platform
solution and as far as I can see Mars is targeted at mac. Also, just to be clear, I don't need native widgets or deep OS integration, just the ability to open Pharo GUIs in separate native windows.
so far this is not possible. There was ffenstraria but it was never push to the point where we could use it.
Cheers,
Andrés
Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Check out the Mars project.
Sean
IMHO services as uservoice.com are really good for open source developments, since you can measure what your users really want. As a user having 10 votes (or whatever amount of votes do you want to give to your users) makes you think about what do you really want and not just ask for any features. An finally, if you *really* want something you can put more than one vote on a given feature. I think is a cool approach. My 2 cts. Andrés Mariano Martinez Peck escribió:
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:39 PM, andres <andres@lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar>wrote:
Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity).
well...no, we don't have a "survey" but that list was build with users requests in the mailing list. But maybe having a survay would be a good idea.
cheers
mariano
Thanks!
Andrés
Mariano Martinez Peck escribió:
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:47 PM, andres <andres@lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar
wrote:
Ok, I see. Is there a "wishlist" associated with Pharo? Something like
http://feedback.assembla.com/?
There are some related pages in http://code.google.com/p/pharo/w/list For exampple: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/IdeasToImplement
cheers
mariano
thanks!
Andrés
Stéphane Ducasse escribió:
On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:57 PM, andres wrote:
Thanks for the quick response Sean, but I'm looking for a cross-platform
solution and as far as I can see Mars is targeted at mac. Also, just to be clear, I don't need native widgets or deep OS integration, just the ability to open Pharo GUIs in separate native windows.
so far this is not possible. There was ffenstraria but it was never push to the point where we could use it.
Cheers,
Andrés
Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Check out the Mars project.
Sean
Hi andres
Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity).
Well well well When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no? We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be influenced but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST code. So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should consider how you can make this happens. Stef
+1. Doru On 7 Dec 2010, at 12:39, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi andres
Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity).
Well well well When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no?
We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be influenced but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST code.
So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should consider how you can make this happens.
Stef
-- www.tudorgirba.com "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"
Stef, Doru: first of all I was *asking if* such a model exists, not demanding one. Having just entered the Pharo world I wanted to know how you guys handle the feature requests. I see now. On the other hand if you really want to discuss the question of "who has the rights for asking for X" in the open source model I'm open, but just to be sure I will first ask: Is it ok to open such a thread? Or should I first contribute to Pharo before asking? Andrés Tudor Girba escribió:
+1.
Doru
On 7 Dec 2010, at 12:39, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi andres
Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity). Well well well When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no?
We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be influenced but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST code.
So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should consider how you can make this happens.
Stef
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:41 PM, andres <andres@lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar>wrote:
Stef, Doru: first of all I was *asking if* such a model exists, not demanding one. Having just entered the Pharo world I wanted to know how you guys handle the feature requests. I see now.
On the other hand if you really want to discuss the question of "who has the rights for asking for X" in the open source model I'm open, but just to be sure I will first ask: Is it ok to open such a thread? Or should I first contribute to Pharo before asking?
Asking is a form of contribution and is important because this is what creates a community and how we can learn. It enables communication and this is good. And your question is a valuable question. (well, unless people keep asking over and over the same question without searching in the mailing-list archive....) And actually the best answer I think is: if you want feature X, you have two ways to get it: A/ pay someone for doing it B/ do it yourself and share so other people may help you Today in Pharo the most used way is B (and I think this is true for most open source project). But may be you have (lot of) money :) So if you think something like UserVoice may sounds good, just try it and share. Darwinism will tell whether it is a good idea or not. Honestly I'm curious about what ideas can people put in a voting system and what they can vote on. Maybe newcomers won't be shy to vote (comparing to sending an email). Now whether the ideas will be implemented is just a matter of choice between A and B. Cheers, Laurent
Andrés
Tudor Girba escribió:
+1.
Doru
On 7 Dec 2010, at 12:39, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi andres
Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity).
Well well well When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no?
We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be influenced but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST code.
So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should consider how you can make this happens.
Stef
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"
Hi Laurent, thanks for your response. While I agree that in many cases the "do-it-yourself" style may apply, I think it would be kind of weird to set up a user voice account for Pharo without the leaders/developers/board being ok with it. Of course is not a matter of laziness, it would be actually less work doing it that writing a couple of mails, it's just that I would feel like taking attributions that don't belong to me. Besides, I don't see anything good coming out of it if the board is not ok with it. Cheers, Andrés laurent laffont escribió:
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:41 PM, andres <andres@lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar>wrote:
Stef, Doru: first of all I was *asking if* such a model exists, not demanding one. Having just entered the Pharo world I wanted to know how you guys handle the feature requests. I see now.
On the other hand if you really want to discuss the question of "who has the rights for asking for X" in the open source model I'm open, but just to be sure I will first ask: Is it ok to open such a thread? Or should I first contribute to Pharo before asking?
Asking is a form of contribution and is important because this is what creates a community and how we can learn. It enables communication and this is good. And your question is a valuable question. (well, unless people keep asking over and over the same question without searching in the mailing-list archive....)
And actually the best answer I think is: if you want feature X, you have two ways to get it: A/ pay someone for doing it B/ do it yourself and share so other people may help you
Today in Pharo the most used way is B (and I think this is true for most open source project). But may be you have (lot of) money :)
So if you think something like UserVoice may sounds good, just try it and share. Darwinism will tell whether it is a good idea or not.
Honestly I'm curious about what ideas can people put in a voting system and what they can vote on. Maybe newcomers won't be shy to vote (comparing to sending an email). Now whether the ideas will be implemented is just a matter of choice between A and B.
Cheers,
Laurent
Andrés
Tudor Girba escribió:
+1.
Doru
On 7 Dec 2010, at 12:39, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi andres
Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity).
Well well well When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no?
We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be influenced but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST code.
So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should consider how you can make this happens.
Stef
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"
On Dec 7, 2010, at 1:41 PM, andres wrote:
Stef, Doru: first of all I was *asking if* such a model exists, not demanding one. Having just entered the Pharo world I wanted to know how you guys handle the feature requests. I see now.
On the other hand if you really want to discuss the question of "who has the rights for asking for X" in the open source model I'm open, but just to be sure I will first ask: Is it ok to open such a thread?
sure
Or should I first contribute to Pharo before asking?
You can but you should know that the chance of getting what you want are low. In the past we ask if esug would support the work of getting multiple native windows. Now apparently the community was not really in need and probably the vm had to be fixed and this was not clear. Stef
If we want to contribute where and how do we contribute...? Perhaps as you state just get a proper DVD for the contribution given @1 per 10 Euro's.. like we used to get from ESUG. -Skrish On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>wrote:
Hi andres
Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity).
Well well well When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no?
We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be influenced but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST code.
So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should consider how you can make this happens.
Stef
Andres Fortier-2 wrote:
Ok, I see. Is there a "wishlist" associated with Pharo? Something like http://feedback.assembla.com/?
I'm moving this conversation to the dev list, so that it will have it's own thread and because not all devs are on this list. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Native-Windows-in-Pharo-tp3071794p3075179.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Wishlist-was-Native-Windows-in-Pharo-td3075089.h... -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Native-Windows-in-Pharo-tp3071794p3075180.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Thanks Sean! Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Wishlist-was-Native-Windows-in-Pharo-td3075089.h...
participants (7)
-
andres -
laurent laffont -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
S Krish -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Tudor Girba