Re: [Pharo-users] can I make this so the vm would not be not responsibe when running the tests
Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list wrote
im still not happy with my answer at this moment.
Contrary to the delusion of "Learn [Programming Language] in 21 Days" or 7 minutes or 3 seconds or whatever the "code boot camps" are marketing these days, mastering any language (and by extension programming in general) probably will take a decade and countless hours. I wouldn't get hung up on making this one exercise perfect. If it accomplishes the task, move on to the next learning experiment. Everyone is trying to help, but you don't have to assimilate this entire pile of great advice in one day! Come back to this thread after a year of practice and you'll likely be shocked how much more sense these comments make :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Sean, I hope your comment doesn't discourage Roelof! I might agree that "mastery" of a given programming language could take a decade of working with it, but it doesn't take anywhere near that long to "learn" a programming language. There are other factors, such as whether or not you already know at least one language: you'll associate what you already know with the new ways of doing the same sorts of things. And you'll know to look for things that you can reasonably expect a new language to provide. But the first language you learn will probably take the longest time, as expected. I think learning Smalltalk/Pharo will take longer than you might expect if the other languages you know are procedural or functional, rather than object-oriented: You need to learn a new way of thinking when learning OOP for the first time. And that can be hard! As humans, we're probably "hard-wired" to think procedurally, which can be a bit of a handicap you when starting OOP. You don't need to, and shouldn't expect to be able to learn everything about a programming language immediately, as you begin learning it. Once you learn the basics (enough to start writing programs that "do something"), you need to begin writing programs --frequently-- and then begin the process of incrementally adding to your understanding and knowledge of "the finer details". You learn as you go. Reading up on the subject, including reading others' code, helps a lot as well. Today we have GitHub to help there! Don't give up, Roelof. The struggles you go through now tell you that you've progressed to the stage of "being aware of what you don't know", which is good: It leads you to ask the right questions that will expand your knowledge. Finding the answers will sometimes be a challenge, but "mastery" of a language pretty much always requires that you work through the kinds of problems you've been having. It's what gives you "insight", summed up as "been there, done that". Otherwise your knowledge of the language would only be superficial (e.g., you would be able to read code examples, but you wouldn't be able to code the examples on your own). We've all been through these kinds of struggles you're having now. It's part of the process, not an indication of "you can't do it". As Sean says, after a year of working with Pharo, you'll be offering the same kinds of advice to others that will follow you in getting started. Just keep at it! -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Thanks. I know that im at that stage and like I said I have the feeling that Im at the stage for more then a half year. I think I know a lot of pieces but need some help to see how the pieces could help me to solve the more complex problems. But maybe I want to fast and I need to concentrate on simple websites with seaside first and the problems of exercism and let the problems of Advent of Code to a later point when I have more experience. I know that the problems of Exercism are from easy to hard and maybe that is a better way. Roelof Op 5-1-2020 om 03:34 schreef tbrunz:
Sean, I hope your comment doesn't discourage Roelof! I might agree that "mastery" of a given programming language could take a decade of working with it, but it doesn't take anywhere near that long to "learn" a programming language.
There are other factors, such as whether or not you already know at least one language: you'll associate what you already know with the new ways of doing the same sorts of things. And you'll know to look for things that you can reasonably expect a new language to provide. But the first language you learn will probably take the longest time, as expected.
I think learning Smalltalk/Pharo will take longer than you might expect if the other languages you know are procedural or functional, rather than object-oriented: You need to learn a new way of thinking when learning OOP for the first time. And that can be hard! As humans, we're probably "hard-wired" to think procedurally, which can be a bit of a handicap you when starting OOP.
You don't need to, and shouldn't expect to be able to learn everything about a programming language immediately, as you begin learning it. Once you learn the basics (enough to start writing programs that "do something"), you need to begin writing programs --frequently-- and then begin the process of incrementally adding to your understanding and knowledge of "the finer details". You learn as you go. Reading up on the subject, including reading others' code, helps a lot as well. Today we have GitHub to help there!
Don't give up, Roelof. The struggles you go through now tell you that you've progressed to the stage of "being aware of what you don't know", which is good: It leads you to ask the right questions that will expand your knowledge. Finding the answers will sometimes be a challenge, but "mastery" of a language pretty much always requires that you work through the kinds of problems you've been having. It's what gives you "insight", summed up as "been there, done that". Otherwise your knowledge of the language would only be superficial (e.g., you would be able to read code examples, but you wouldn't be able to code the examples on your own).
We've all been through these kinds of struggles you're having now. It's part of the process, not an indication of "you can't do it". As Sean says, after a year of working with Pharo, you'll be offering the same kinds of advice to others that will follow you in getting started. Just keep at it!
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
participants (3)
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Roelof Wobben -
Sean P. DeNigris -
tbrunz