I just refer to my original announcement: "Need an EASY translation framework for your Pharo application with NO EXTERNAL dependency?" That's it. Nothing fancy. Nothing more. Only a simple project. You can - but must not use it and I did not announce it as a GetText replacement. ;) With "I18N" there is no need to externally set up other tools, by default no playing with files. One can manage and version the translation with the code. It is open to the format and I do not have to reinstall external tools when I switch between computers. Start up Pharo and off I go. But this is specific to me and maybe different for others. If it gets complicated one can always switch to GetText or other solutions. Look at the webframeworks - we have Teapot, Aida, Seaside, ... so let the users decide what he wants to use. And GetText is not the only format. Look at Java - there you have messages and message property files or *.resx from .NET world. In I18N I can use them as source as well if I like and they are also not uncommon in translation (offices) and have nice tool support too. Hilaire wrote:
For DrGeo this is a show stopper.
As I said it depends on the needs and you may be right for Dr. Geo (or other Pharo based applications).
From the discussion I think we can agree that it would be good to also have good Pharo support for GetText. And then lets talk about the IMHO currently horrible state of GetText and how to fix it:
1. Why is "GetText" not easily loadable from the config browser? If we want people to find and use it we should make it accessible. 2. When you google for "Pharo" and "GetText" you will find https://code.google.com/p/seaside/wiki/Gettext as the first match. The page is outdated, points to the old repository on SqueakSource http://www.squeaksource.com/PharoNonCorePackages/ and even that page does not include a hint that meanwhile the package moved to STHub. 3. Also the new hosting on the STHub page http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Gettext seems broken, it includes the following comment: "Migrated from PharoNonCorePackages. Should be adapted to Pharo2.0" Outdated comment or not usable in Pharo 3.0/4.0? 4. The last version there is Gettext-HilaireFernandes.33, that is the one that is also included in Dr. Geo. The code should be updated as a) it includes a reference to missing class "MethodReference" in #appendVocabulary:domains: b) the NaturalLanguageTranslator>>cleanUp method references a class variable that is not there Any takers? 5. Writing a simple docu for I18N on STHub took me only a few minutes using markdown and https://stackedit.io. (Pillar and PillarHub provide the same, but STHub does not support it). So why not write a similar docu for GetText including code snippets and all the knowledge that seems to be there already from using it... Bye T.
Nice job! And nice doc! Thank you. Doru On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
I just refer to my original announcement: "Need an EASY translation framework for your Pharo application with NO EXTERNAL dependency?"
That's it. Nothing fancy. Nothing more. Only a simple project. You can - but must not use it and I did not announce it as a GetText replacement. ;)
With "I18N" there is no need to externally set up other tools, by default no playing with files. One can manage and version the translation with the code. It is open to the format and I do not have to reinstall external tools when I switch between computers. Start up Pharo and off I go. But this is specific to me and maybe different for others.
If it gets complicated one can always switch to GetText or other solutions. Look at the webframeworks - we have Teapot, Aida, Seaside, ... so let the users decide what he wants to use.
And GetText is not the only format. Look at Java - there you have messages and message property files or *.resx from .NET world. In I18N I can use them as source as well if I like and they are also not uncommon in translation (offices) and have nice tool support too.
Hilaire wrote:
For DrGeo this is a show stopper.
As I said it depends on the needs and you may be right for Dr. Geo (or other Pharo based applications).
From the discussion I think we can agree that it would be good to also have good Pharo support for GetText. And then lets talk about the IMHO currently horrible state of GetText and how to fix it:
1. Why is "GetText" not easily loadable from the config browser? If we want people to find and use it we should make it accessible.
2. When you google for "Pharo" and "GetText" you will find https://code.google.com/p/seaside/wiki/Gettext as the first match.
The page is outdated, points to the old repository on SqueakSource http://www.squeaksource.com/PharoNonCorePackages/ and even that page does not include a hint that meanwhile the package moved to STHub.
3. Also the new hosting on the STHub page http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Gettext seems broken, it includes the following comment:
"Migrated from PharoNonCorePackages. Should be adapted to Pharo2.0"
Outdated comment or not usable in Pharo 3.0/4.0?
4. The last version there is Gettext-HilaireFernandes.33, that is the one that is also included in Dr. Geo. The code should be updated as
a) it includes a reference to missing class "MethodReference" in #appendVocabulary:domains: b) the NaturalLanguageTranslator>>cleanUp method references a class variable that is not there
Any takers?
5. Writing a simple docu for I18N on STHub took me only a few minutes using markdown and https://stackedit.io. (Pillar and PillarHub provide the same, but STHub does not support it).
So why not write a similar docu for GetText including code snippets and all the knowledge that seems to be there already from using it...
Bye T.
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On 15 Sep 2014, at 23:18, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
I just refer to my original announcement: "Need an EASY translation framework for your Pharo application with NO EXTERNAL dependency?â
Hi Torsten, Agree with you 100% and thatâs also how I understood your announcement of i18n.
so let the users decide what he wants to use.
exactly
1. Why is "GetText" not easily loadable from the config browser? If we want people to find and use it we should make it accessible.
The ConfigurationOfGettext exists but I donât have access to the metarepo.
2. When you google for "Pharo" and "GetText" you will find https://code.google.com/p/seaside/wiki/Gettext as the first match.
The page is outdated, points to the old repository on SqueakSource http://www.squeaksource.com/PharoNonCorePackages/ and even that page does not include a hint that meanwhile the package moved to STHub.
Point taken. I will move the page to the Seaside book.
3. Also the new hosting on the STHub page http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Gettext seems broken, it includes the following comment:
"Migrated from PharoNonCorePackages. Should be adapted to Pharo2.0"
Outdated comment or not usable in Pharo 3.0/4.0?
Outdated comment. I updated it.
4. The last version there is Gettext-HilaireFernandes.33, that is the one that is also included in Dr. Geo. The code should be updated as
a) it includes a reference to missing class "MethodReference" in #appendVocabulary:domains: b) the NaturalLanguageTranslator>>cleanUp method references a class variable that is not there
Any takers?
Allright, as I have been mostly using the Seaside extension to it, this are parts I have not used. Ok, will take a look at them since Iâm working in this area concerning the gemstone port as well.
5. Writing a simple docu for I18N on STHub took me only a few minutes using markdown and https://stackedit.io. (Pillar and PillarHub provide the same, but STHub does not support it).
So why not write a similar docu for GetText including code snippets and all the knowledge that seems to be there already from using it...
Ha, a bit optimistic there⦠I donât write a page of text in a couple of minutes, but I know what you mean ;) cheers Johan
Le 16/09/2014 09:50, Johan Brichau a écrit :
So why not write a similar docu for GetText including code snippets and all the knowledge that
seems to be there already from using it...
Already done since a couple of years in the collaboractive book. -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istao.drgeo.eu
participants (4)
-
Hilaire -
Johan Brichau -
Torsten Bergmann -
Tudor Girba