"Abusing an external text editor is a slap in the face of anyone building good tooling support into Smalltalk over many years.��

I know��Dimitris��tried to help people (as often) - but I guess this video really gives a false impression and guides people the wrong way."

Abusing ? Wait what on earth you talking about ?

How is using an external editor , abusing ?

Who is all mighty authority that says all these things ?

Is there a coder out there that can predict the needs and preferences of every single coder ?

Last time I checked we edit text inside pharo , not bytecode.

Since when Smalltlak was not about source code, since when Smalltalk is not about text ?

Oh sorry I forgot Pharo is not Smalltalk.

Yeah I guess I have never been religiously enslaved to any ideology or belief and is true I do guide people the wrong way instead of taking something at face value, because some authority says so, to use their critical thinking and learn from their mistakes.��

Yeah I guess my slap in the face of people build good tooling , is a stream of videos that took me hours and hours to produce, that take newcomers by hand and teach them step by step how to make tools in Pharo. Or contributing to documentation because apparently building a good tooling will magically transmit the knowledge to user heads.

My video is a problem and is not a problem that our documentation is still lagging behind even when the most basic book is concerned Pharo By Example ?

My video is a problem and is not a problem that the vast majority of the code inside Pharo does not even have class comments ?

My video is a problem and is not a problem that the image has been ridden with feature creep and accumulating complexity that serves no purpose ?

My video is a problem and is not a problem that every time we talk about new technologies everything , we have to be informed again and again absolutely everything is inferior to Smalltalk ?

My video is a problem and is not a problem that every time one dares to criticize Pharo or Smalltalk apparently we do not understand Smalltalk while they understand other technologies ?

But worry not, the chances of me posting another video which were already extremely low have certainly reached absolute zero.

I was planning to integrated an IPFS like system using bittorent protocol inside Pharo so I can interconnect images of our entire community into one universal virtual p2p image as a proof of concept for a commercial project I am developing for Blender. Main use there will be to unify asset management and code distribution in an image like fashion like happens in Pharo.��

https://ipfs.io/

But I guess this is also inferior to Smalltalk standards and a slap in the face of anyone making good tooling in Pharo.

My hand got tired of slapping, I think I will take a break.

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 10:10 AM Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25 Jan 2019, at 20:52, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Maybe Pharo's switch to Tonel remind people now on Java or C# class files and thats why they ask for the "traditional editing��.

Nah, people talk about this time to time.
Tonel format is just a readable format that yes, cool be used to edit in text files (but that was doable with chunk format too).

For all the rest, +1 :)

> But remember that Kent Beck once said: "I mean, source code in files; how quaint, how seventies!". Tonel is a readable storage format,
> you could have the source code even in a database (with an ENVY and STORE like approach)
>
> And ouch .... that video really hurts and I think it will be more disturbing than helpful especially to many newbees
> now trying to use their favourite text editor for Pharo coding instead of really learning about a very flexible IDE and workflow with
> browsing, interactively inspecting and refactorings.
>
> Abusing an external text editor is a slap in the face of anyone building good tooling support into Smalltalk over many years.
> I know Dimitris tried to help people (as often) - but I guess this video really gives a false impression and guides people the wrong way.
>��
> Sorry - but I'm reminded on pictures like this:
>��
>�� https://i1.wp.com/ecbiz168.inmotionhosting.com/~perfor21/performancemanagementcompanyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/magnet-image-sws-one-no-border.gif
>
> Dont get me wrong: VisualStudio/VisualStudio Code, Eclipse, IntelliJ and others are nice, I use them too for other languages or tasks. Nicely done - but still
> too static. Often I wished only half of the money invested into such IDE's could have been spend on better Smalltalk tooling.
>��
> Remember: once VisualAge for Java got a price as the first usuable Java IDE (when people used Notepad to write *.java files) - but underneath it was
> fully coded in Smalltalk and the Java debugger was the Smalltalk debugger running the java subset of bytecodes. At that time VisualAge for Smalltalk
> was the base for the full VisualAge series (VisualAge for Java, Visual Age for C++ and others).
>
> But Smalltalk at that time unfortunately was expensive, licensing a problem and big vendors had to prove one can do deliver similar things with Java too - leading
> to Eclipse and others. But the best part on Eclipse was not Java - it was the pluggability concept. The extension point mechanisms of the platform provide
> a clear separation leading to a nice ecosystem of available plugins - but still it is hard to write and debug a custom extension.
>
> A Smalltalk environment is still more dynamic, more lively where you can browse, inspect and adjust nearly anything. And yes - you can even shoot yourself in the foot.
> And yes we know Pharo does not provide fancy widgets yet or latest text editing features - but this is a tribute to community resources.
>
> From my experience: if one free's his mind and gives up traditional programming habits learned in mainstream languages he will enjoy the Pharo journey
> much more.
>
> Bye
> T.
>��
>