Thanks for your quick answer.�� I have only a fleeting knowledge of Pharo but liked what I saw. The Squeak class library has seen organic growth since 1978 or earlier. Pharo gave it a thorough overhaul. At the Pharo kernel was a minimal image with a minimal class library. The rest of the functionality was partitioned into packages that could be added to the kernel image as required. Beautiful. But only my dream?
Matthew 7:24-27: And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that�� house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And�� everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand."
I am developing an IDE for non-programmers�� called BabyIDE, a non-intrusive extension of Squeak. Where the Class Browser in Squeak is used to work with one class at the time, the BabyIDE browser is used to work with structures of collaborating objects, ignoring their classes. I would like to develop a BabyIDE image that gets broad usage and long life. I'm looking for a rock to build on and hoped it could be what I thought was the Pharo kernel+ a few selected packages. In your answer, I read that if I build BabyIDE on Pharo, I will be building on sand.

pharo.org writes: "Pharo is a pure object-oriented programming language...".�� The only language I can see is defined by the release image. A Pharo programmer builds application programs in this language. He or she can add new classes, change existing ones, subclass them, add or change methods, change the Smalltalk dictionary, etc. etc.�� An extremely flexible and powerful language.

A tale from the future when Pharo is a mainstream language: Business customers benefit from end users using applications that are written by Pharo programmers who built on the Pharo language and environment that had been developed by the Pharo community. One day there is a happy announcement: A new version of Pharo will be launched tomorrow. It is truly cool and includes any number of improvements, some of them documented. And, by the way, applications written in the current Pharo will no longer work. So please inform your customers that you will not be able to serve them for a while. We are confident that all your application programmers will be happy to drop whatever they are doing in order to adapt their applications to the new Pharo so that you can start serving your customers again.

Cheers
--Trygve
��


On 06.05.2018 13:00, Norbert Hartl wrote:
Can you elaborate on what you consider as a kernel? There are always things moving in the pharo world. The last years the virtual machine got some iterations and it is still not fully stable. For pharo it is hard to have it stable because we feel the need that a lot of the existing parts need to be replaced to be useful in these times. Furthermore pharo is also prototyping platform for programming language features. All of these are counter-stability measures. So if you need a stable kernel from native ground up to UI pharo won���t be that thing you are looking for the coming years (if at all). You always need to adopt to change so you need to define your required scope better in order to get an estimate.

Norbert

Am 06.05.2018 um 11:31 schrieb Trygve Reenskaug <trygver@ifi.uio.no>:

I'm working on a programing paradigm and IDE for the personal programmer who wants to control his or her IoT. The size of the target audience I have in mind is >100 million. I gave up Squeak long ago as a platform because they obsolete my code faster than I can write it.�� I have now frozen Squeak 3.10.2 and hope its runtime will survive until I find a better foundation. My hope is that Pharo has a stable kernel that I can build on.�� According to Stephan, this is not so. Is there any plan for creating a stable Pharo kernel that people can use for building software of lasting value for millions of non-expert users?
--Thanks, Trygve

On 05.05.2018 13:53, Stephan Eggermont wrote:
I���ve taken a look at what would be needed to
support magma on pharo a few years ago. Chris always told us he uses it
professionally on squeak and has not enough capacity to keep up with
changes in pharo without having a customer/maintainer for it. Twice a year
or so someone asks about magma on pharo and takes a look. AFAIK there are
no real obstacles to a port, but magma uses a lot of deep implementation
specifics that will take an experienced smalltalker to deal with, and a lot
of mailing list archeology as pharo changed a lot since magma worked on
pharo last

Stephan

--

The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate�� to achieve a goal.
Trygve Reenskaug������������mailto: trygver@ifi.uio.no
Morgedalsvn. 5A��������������http://folk.uio.no/trygver/
N-0378 Oslo��������������������������http://fullOO.info
Norway������������������������������������������Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27


--

The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate�� to achieve a goal.
Trygve Reenskaug������������mailto: trygver@ifi.uio.no
Morgedalsvn. 5A��������������http://folk.uio.no/trygver/
N-0378 Oslo��������������������������http://fullOO.info
Norway������������������������������������������Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27