Hi Pavel

Does it make sense to have loaded by default?

Stef

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 8:05 AM, Pavel Krivanek
<pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> 2017-11-09 23:50 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
>>
>> I think this is two different problems:
>>
>> 1. pharo itself supporting different languages/keyboards, etc.
>> 2. pharo allowing the development of i18n applications
>>
>> I think we still need to work on point 1, but for point 2 we already have
>> gettext package, which is a standard we can/should use. Maybe that needs to
>> be better documented (as everything), but well��� we have a solution there :)
>
>
> Will we include it into the standard image?
>
> -- Pavel
>
>>
>> Esteban
>>
>> > On 9 Nov 2017, at 18:58, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > The Pharo 7/8 roadmap does not (yet) include I18N:
>> > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-workingRoadmaps/blob/master/Pharo7/ROADMAP.md
>> >
>> > and the Pharo core image still includes the "NaturalLanguageTranslator"
>> > solution still from Squeak. See this class for more details and
>> > all senders of #translated message. So far the whole Pharo UI is in
>> > English and while books, the mooc or others were translated the Pharo
>> > image so far is not.
>> > I guess some more work would be needed also on the font frontier to
>> > provide an internationalized image and the different languages.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > But for own applications (like web applications) there are some more
>> > (external) solutions:
>> >
>> >
>> > 1. I once wrote and announced an own I18N framwork:
>> > http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-dev_lists.pharo.org/2014-September/100247.html
>> >�� ��which is fully documented on
>> > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~TorstenBergmann/I18N but is a completely
>> > proprietary solution.
>> >
>> > 2. There is also some stuff from Jan van de Sandt:
>> >
>> > https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012-October/070652.html
>> >
>> > 3. And there is GetText (from Seaside web framework) which I guess is
>> > either here http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Gettext
>> >�� ��or now maintained here:
>> > https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki/Gettext
>> >
>> >�� ��Unfortunately back at the time this one was not independently loadable
>> > and had other trouble which I critisized on
>> >�� ��http://forum.world.st/ANN-Easy-I18N-for-Pharo-td4778194.html
>> >
>> >�� ��Maybe situation for this project has improved.
>> >
>> >
>> > But so far nobody pushed I18N really into Pharo ...
>> >
>> > 4. Therefore back in 2014 I started with a consolidation by starting a
>> > clean room implementation of Gettext - based on code from 3.
>> >�� ��but now with tests and Pharo Spec based tools (see screenshot
>> > attached). I did it in an own repo to be able to experiment and
>> >�� ��not break the Seaside solution right in the beginning.
>> >
>> >�� ��My code is on STHub
>> > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~TorstenBergmann/Gettext�� and it is not yet fully
>> > usable and so far still
>> >�� ��unfinished
>> >
>> >�� ��But one can load the project still in Pharo 7 using
>> >
>> >�� �� ��Gofer it
>> >�� �� �� ��smalltalkhubUser: 'TorstenBergmann' project: 'Gettext';
>> >�� �� �� ��configuration;
>> >�� �� �� ��load.
>> >
>> >�� �� ��(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGettext) project bleedingEdge load
>> >
>> >�� ��All 11 Tests are green so at least what is there should work. Check
>> > the world menu and the code. Load the "Foo" package from the same repository
>> >�� ��to see something in the tools. The idea was to have support for MO and
>> > PO files completely written in Smalltalk as well as tools that allow you
>> >�� ��to find and translate internationalized text.
>> >
>> >�� ��But as always: this would require more work. I would still favour a
>> > fully in Pharo written solution (following the gettext formats) but maybe
>> > for
>> >�� ��performance reasons then also bind to libgettext using UFFI.
>> >
>> >
>> > Hope this gives some insights on the current existing solutions/status.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Torsten
>> >
>> >
>> >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 09. November 2017 um 21:29 Uhr
>> >> Von: "���������������� ��������������" <vikenti.potapov@gmail.com>
>> >> An: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
>> >> Betreff: [Pharo-users] I18n in pharo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Will Pharo 7 be ready for i18n of applications?
>> >> I mean some simple and useful way like in Cincom Visual Works, where
>> >> translation dictionaries are separated from code and could be dinamycally
>> >> changed without changing my application.
>> >>
>> >> It is very important for huge commercial applications, especially with
>> >> lots of UI forms, dialogs and user-messages.
>> >>
>> >> I transfer my code from Cincom VW (VW is not available now for Russia
>> >> due to politic situation) to Pharo and is very interested in simple
>> >> internationalization mechanism. I don't want to reinvent the wheel but
>> >> sometimes it seems to me that pharo developers are forced to do it.
>> >>
>> >> By the way, the error i had last week with clean Pharo 6\Pharo 6.1
>> >> installation ("UTF8InvalidText: Invalid utf8 input detected" on image load -
>> >> error caused by cyrillic path to application folder) didn't solved and i had
>> >> no feedback from community.
>> >>
>> >> best regards,
>> >> Vikenti Potapov.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > <GetTextNewTools.png>
>>
>>
>