Btw, did Self ever work?�� At all?�� The last I remember it was in a similar state to Electron without the M$ adds in Visual Studio, i.e. the samples from the site don���t build.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Thierry Goubier
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 2:48 PM
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earningalivingfromSmalltalk

 

Hi Andrew,

 

Le 06/11/2017 �� 19:59, Andrew Glynn a ��crit :

> I /suspect/ that a (mostly repressed) underlying sense that a reliable,

> inexpensive platform, if popular, would have been more detrimental to

> IBM than to its smaller competitors. The same goes for the VisualAge

> family -> Smalltalk (sold now by Instantiations at v. 9.0), Java, C++

> and COBOL.  One of the (largely unthought) reasons for Smalltalk���s

> difficulties in the 1990���s, when hardware could run it decently, was

> that it took a fair number of resources/time to write a decent version,

> while using it would have been a bigger advantage to smaller companies

> than to the companies with the money to develop one.  The result was

> that only a few, very expensive versions were publicly available.  VA

> Smalltalk still retails at ~$8500 / seat.

>

> Those kinds of hazy (because not admitted to oneself) reasons for doing

> things end up resulting in apparently contradictory actions such as

> spending large amounts writing something, releasing it, then failing to

> support it with any sales or marketing push, and even actively

> undermining it.  Nobody wants to fully admit that inefficiencies are

> actually to their advantage, which is the reason it���s repressed

> (implying both known /and/ not known, simultaneously).

>

> I���m totally speculating of course and may be dead wrong, but it fits

> with other IBM actions and non-actions.  IBM is a strange company that

> sees itself, partly for good reason, as a business that must make money

> /and/ as an international resource that must continue to exist. Though

> the latter depends to a degree on the former, they don���t always imply

> the same specific decisions.

>

> Interestingly, to prove the scalability of a VM based system IBM wrote

> ���RVM��� (originally meaning ���Renaissance VM���), and proved near linear

> scaling to 1024 cores, but RVM is a VM for Squeak and earlier versions

> of Pharo, not IBM Smalltalk (the source is available, on GitHub I believe).

 

https://github.com/smarr/RoarVM

 

I wouldn't say it is IBM, instead that it is David Ungar work (of Self

and a few other things)...

 

Has probably ties to the Jikes RVM as well.

 

> Arca Noae (meaning ���New Box���), the company that released v.5.0 in June,

> was set up because too many big customers can���t migrate crucial apps

> from OS/2 to anything else.  The new version looks more modern,

> borrowing icons and other things from Linux, mainly KDE.  It can run a

> fair number of Win32 apps, and supports virtually all modern hardware,

> scaling to 128 threads and 16GB RAM, though it���s still 32 bit in most

> senses.

>

> As you can imagine, given the base requirements are a Pentium Pro with

> 64MB RAM, on an average laptop today it flies.

 

I'm not nostalgic, but the object model and how it was handling

versionning was cool.

 

Anybody remember Taligent?

 

Thierry

 

>

> Andrew

>

> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for

> Windows 10

>

> *From: *Richard Sargent <mailto:rsargent@5x5.on.ca>

> *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 11:55 AM

> *To: *'Any question about pharo is welcome'

> <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>

> *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning

> alivingfromSmalltalk

>

> Andrew,

>

> I worked with OS/2 in the early 90s and really liked it; I adopted it

> for my personal use as well. I really enjoyed reading the details you

> provided earlier.

>

> I have a hypothesis that when IBM tried to sell OS/2 (Warp) via a retail

> channel that it "hurt". A company whose DNA was channel sales would find

> dealing with retail issues to be entirely different from everything they

> knew. So, I speculate that there were enough people to felt (and argued)

> that OS/2 wasn't "worth it".

>

> Any thoughts you would care to share on that supposition would be

> appreciated.

>

> *From:*Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] *On

> Behalf Of *Andrew Glynn

> *Sent:* November 6, 2017 04:18

> *To:* Any question about pharo is welcome

> *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a

> livingfromSmalltalk

>

> Thank you.  I will see if I can get to it today or tomorrow.

>

> Andrew

>

> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for

> Windows 10

>

> *From: *Davorin Rusevljan <mailto:davorin.rusevljan@gmail.com>

> *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 4:17 AM

> *To: *Any question about pharo is welcome

> <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>

> *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a

> livingfromSmalltalk

>

> On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42@gmail.com

> <mailto:aglynn42@gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>�������� Your history is accurate, but there���s a few things I���d  like to add,

>�������� due to having been employed by IBM at exactly that period working

>�������� specifically on VisualAge, not only for Smalltalk, but for Java, C++

>�������� and Cobol as well.  (my NDA���s finally having expired also helps

>�������� 😉).  It���s not a correction or contradiction, but a complement to

>�������� your description, providing a relevant but different perspective.

>

> Andrew,

>

> please find a way to write an article or blog post on this subject. It

> is priceless.

>

> davorin

>