Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript?
Hi Frank, It must be very frustrating to see so many possibly interesting projects that are so difficult to get started with, being it because of lack of development and migration to the latest versions, or because of lack of documentation. It is a feeling I, and no doubt a lot of other smalltalkers, share. Our open source community consist of people spending a lot of their time on Pharo. A few of them are paid to do so, some more make it their bachelor, master or PhD project, and for even more it is just a hobby or side project. They all have different objectives with their projects, and different constraints. To get good results with our community, effective communications is essential. That allows us to develop multiple projects in a way that creates synergy, and a coherent whole. I find a crucial element of effective communication is to build up a connection, so others are able to hear your message. Your first message in this thread is excellent. Telling people they are not professional, and do a bad job, without knowing about the context in which the code was produced, is unlikely to lead to effective communications. People who feel attacked are no longer open to your message, irrespective of the contents. Effective communications has also nothing to do with PC or 'truth', and especially not the absolute and blaming kind. Posing opinions as truths looks less than helpful to me. I find clearly separating facts, feelings, needs, and strategies to fulfill those needs more effective. Creating documentation takes time and effort. That needs to be balanced against other priorities. You might not like the priorities others set, but you are not paying (in money nor effort). Also, we can only start at the position we are now in, no matter how much we want to be somewhere else. This is open source, so please let us know where you want to contribute so we can help you getting started. Stephan
Stephan, nice ironies! My compliments for this! I won't comment your attempts to justify the "I contribute for my ego", which is published as a great Smalltalk system. I have made my point clear! One comment on this:
Your first message in this thread is excellent.
I would expect most intelligent people to be interested in and gratefiul for honest experience reports and comments on the work one has done, especially when they come from a very experience collegues who has been in this business twice as long or more as presumably the majority of people here. Bur, or course, you are free (but not welcome with me) to have your own very different opinion like the chicks often being wiser than the hen. So let me comment this foolishness:
Creating documentation takes time and effort. That needs to be balanced against other priorities.
I feel sorry for you if you really have not yet understood that proper, early and complete documentation and comments ARE ONLY an investment in the code, because they save time and efforts later on, which always pay back - mostly multiple times. With my >35 years in the software business and around 30 years in o-o technologies it'd be a waste of time to disucss such statements with somebody who unfortunately has not been tought such core wisdoms at university. But to me this comes as no surprise, as almost all "teachers" in the broader sense on universities - at least in Europa - have hardly any practical experience themselves - much like the surgeon who has never performed an appendix operation but wants to teach student how to do it. And, of course, the duration of being in a business as such is no guarantee for expertise but still it increases its probabilty enormously. After all, you are all trying to point away from the essential questions: Why is Pharo giving it's name for an obviously (at first glance) lousy implemetation where not even the prepared demo parts are runnig out of the box? Is that ok for you? And why are we discussing only "my impertinence" to point openly on bugs and missing documentation!?!? This is so absurd! Frank -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Anybody-using-Orca-Smalltalk-to-JavaScript-tp4960519p4... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (2)
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Frank-B -
Stephan Eggermont