[Pharo-project] CompiledMethod asString is a text
Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it does seem weird enough to ask ⦠(Object >> #hash) asString class returns 'Text'. Cheers, Niko -- http://scg.unibe.ch/staff/Schwarz twitter.com/nes1983 Tel: +41 076 235 8683
"Niko" == Niko Schwarz <niko.schwarz@googlemail.com> writes:
Niko> Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it Niko> does seem weird enough to ask ⦠Niko> (Object >> #hash) asString class Niko> returns 'Text'. It has to be, to hold styled text, right? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
On 1 April 2010 01:52, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> wrote:
"Niko" == Niko Schwarz <niko.schwarz@googlemail.com> writes:
Niko> Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it Niko> does seem weird enough to ask â¦
Niko> Â Â (Object >> #hash) asString class
Niko> returns 'Text'.
It has to be, to hold styled text, right?
as to me, asking to string, should return string, not text.
-- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
On Apr 1, 2010, at 4:39 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 1 April 2010 01:52, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> wrote:
"Niko" == Niko Schwarz <niko.schwarz@googlemail.com> writes:
Niko> Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it Niko> does seem weird enough to ask â¦
Niko> (Object >> #hash) asString class
Niko> returns 'Text'.
It has to be, to hold styled text, right?
as to me, asking to string, should return string, not text.
Yes. And if a tool wants bold, it calls asText. Another example of the "principle of the least surprise". That's the reason why, for example, "Browser open" opens a Browser, not a Workspace Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
More seriously it would be nice to have a solution. After may be string and text can share a common interface and the current situation is kind of ok. Does anybody have a larger view on the problem and possible solution? Stef
On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
More seriously it would be nice to have a solution. After may be string and text can share a common interface and the current situation is kind of ok. Does anybody have a larger view on the problem and possible solution?
I think this was all fixed already in 1.1... (Object>>#halt) asString class --> ByteString. There is no asText. but #getSource return a Text (for formatted methods, of course) (Object>>#halt) getSource class So not too bad. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
Guys, is this a fool's day hoax? ;) I think we shouldn't get agitated because of stuff like this. It doesn't matter what origin the code has. We fix it and then its done. That's how we make progress. And it's supposed to be fun too! Cheers, Adrian On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:23 , Marcus Denker wrote:
On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
More seriously it would be nice to have a solution. After may be string and text can share a common interface and the current situation is kind of ok. Does anybody have a larger view on the problem and possible solution?
I think this was all fixed already in 1.1...
(Object>>#halt) asString class --> ByteString.
There is no asText. but #getSource return a Text (for formatted methods, of course)
(Object>>#halt) getSource class
So not too bad.
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
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yes it is :) I laugth a lot. Stef On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:48 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Guys, is this a fool's day hoax? ;)
I think we shouldn't get agitated because of stuff like this. It doesn't matter what origin the code has. We fix it and then its done. That's how we make progress. And it's supposed to be fun too!
Cheers, Adrian
On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:23 , Marcus Denker wrote:
On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
More seriously it would be nice to have a solution. After may be string and text can share a common interface and the current situation is kind of ok. Does anybody have a larger view on the problem and possible solution?
I think this was all fixed already in 1.1...
(Object>>#halt) asString class --> ByteString.
There is no asText. but #getSource return a Text (for formatted methods, of course)
(Object>>#halt) getSource class
So not too bad.
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Niko Schwarz wrote:
Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it does seem weird enough to ask â¦
(Object >> #hash) asString class
returns 'Text'.
I think this is historical. Methods *used* to return Strings, and the Browser highlighted the first line. Than, when the possibility to have "Rich text" kind of methods (with bold, colors, links) added in Squeak, this was "implemented" by the "do the smallest change possible, we will rewrite everything anyway" strategy. Never clean up! Never Refactor! Of course, like always, the "big rewrite from scratch" never happened. To the contrary, all the time more and more "do the smallest change possible" changes where introduced on top, up to the point that the whole system was just *bad*. There is something to be learned from this, I guess. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
On 4/1/2010 12:12 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Niko Schwarz wrote:
Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it does seem weird enough to ask â¦
(Object>> #hash) asString class
returns 'Text'.
I think this is historical. Methods *used* to return Strings, and the Browser highlighted the first line.
Than, when the possibility to have "Rich text" kind of methods (with bold, colors, links) added in Squeak, this was "implemented" by the "do the smallest change possible, we will rewrite everything anyway" strategy.
Never clean up! Never Refactor!
Wow, Marcus. Your hostility towards Squeak is seriously amazing. Even more so since CompiledMethod>>asString DOES NOT EXIST in Squeak. It's a Pharo method. Of course, it's Squeak's fault that in Pharo, and Pharo only, CompiledMethod>>asString returns a text.
Of course, like always, the "big rewrite from scratch" never happened. To the contrary, all the time more and more "do the smallest change possible" changes where introduced on top, up to the point that the whole system was just *bad*.
So what does that mean given that the method has a stamp of 'stephane.ducasse 8/9/2009 12:05'? Cheers, - Andreas
On Apr 1, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Andreas Raab wrote:
On 4/1/2010 12:12 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Niko Schwarz wrote:
Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it does seem weird enough to ask â¦
(Object>> #hash) asString class
returns 'Text'.
I think this is historical. Methods *used* to return Strings, and the Browser highlighted the first line.
Than, when the possibility to have "Rich text" kind of methods (with bold, colors, links) added in Squeak, this was "implemented" by the "do the smallest change possible, we will rewrite everything anyway" strategy.
Never clean up! Never Refactor!
Wow, Marcus. Your hostility towards Squeak is seriously amazing.
It's not hostility. Not at all. It's my *love* for Squeak that was/is the problem. I could just not do nothing, *because* I loved it so much... my mistake.
Even more so since CompiledMethod>>asString DOES NOT EXIST in Squeak.
So then I was wrong with this analysis... but on the big picture, it is true. And you know it. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
+1 And we know it all!
It's not hostility. Not at all. It's my *love* for Squeak that was/is the problem. I could just not do nothing, *because* I loved it so much... my mistake.
Even more so since CompiledMethod>>asString DOES NOT EXIST in Squeak.
So then I was wrong with this analysis... but on the big picture, it is true. And you know it.
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On 01.04.2010, at 10:06, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Apr 1, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Andreas Raab wrote:
On 4/1/2010 12:12 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Niko Schwarz wrote:
Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it does seem weird enough to ask â¦
(Object>> #hash) asString class
returns 'Text'.
I think this is historical. Methods *used* to return Strings, and the Browser highlighted the first line.
Than, when the possibility to have "Rich text" kind of methods (with bold, colors, links) added in Squeak, this was "implemented" by the "do the smallest change possible, we will rewrite everything anyway" strategy.
Never clean up! Never Refactor!
Wow, Marcus. Your hostility towards Squeak is seriously amazing.
Hey guys, don't ruin the peace just yet, okay? http://xkcd.com/386/
It's not hostility. Not at all. It's my *love* for Squeak that was/is the problem. I could just not do nothing, *because* I loved it so much... my mistake.
Loving something is never a mistake.
Even more so since CompiledMethod>>asString DOES NOT EXIST in Squeak.
So then I was wrong with this analysis... but on the big picture, it is true. And you know it.
Marcus
Yep. Besides, who hasn't been surprised the first time you use #getSourceFromFile returns a Text? Certainly I was. It makes sense since source code for us is of course not just a string, but it's surprising nonetheless. /back to lurking - Bert -
Hey guys, don't ruin the peace just yet, okay?
You know what is fun is that all women should ask the same :) This was a good one :) At least mine got a bad schedule this year and she has to wake up far more early than me :) but ok I take care of the little monsters and dropping them at school. You can send good comix on pharo-dev this is allowed :) Stef
On 4/1/2010 1:06 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:
So then I was wrong with this analysis... but on the big picture, it is true. And you know it.
It was. In the past. But I don't live in the past. I live in the present. And in the present, Squeak has moved on. We're past that. We have a great system, a great community, a great contribution process. If you look at the last eight months we've had more contributions than in the previous five years together, both small and large. We have *serious* momentum. We have Etoys and Croquet/Cobalt moving back to Squeak. We'll be having the *second* release this year in three weeks we may even have a third release this year if the momentum keeps up. In any case we're *way* past the issues you mention. Everyone who wants to help Squeak is welcome to contribute[1]. That includes you and Stef. You have standing invitations to join the Squeak core developers so if you have any interest in Squeak left, you'll pick that invitation up and help make Squeak better. At least that's how I judge if someone really loves Squeak - not whether he says it but whether he *does* something to improve it. [1]http://squeakboard.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/a-new-community-development-mode... Cheers, - Andreas
I am sharing Markuses hartred towards badly crafted code. But this is not a hostility towards Squeak. I love it :) There are parts which could be done better and cleaner, with more thought-out design. So, there is a big space for improvement, nothing more. On 1 April 2010 12:45, Andreas Raab <andreas.raab@gmx.de> wrote:
On 4/1/2010 1:06 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:
So then I was wrong with this analysis... but on the big picture, it is true. And you know it.
It was. In the past. But I don't live in the past. I live in the present. And in the present, Squeak has moved on. We're past that. We have a great system, a great community, a great contribution process. If you look at the last eight months we've had more contributions than in the previous five years together, both small and large. We have *serious* momentum. We have Etoys and Croquet/Cobalt moving back to Squeak. We'll be having the *second* release this year in three weeks we may even have a third release this year if the momentum keeps up.
In any case we're *way* past the issues you mention. Everyone who wants to help Squeak is welcome to contribute[1]. That includes you and Stef. You have standing invitations to join the Squeak core developers so if you have any interest in Squeak left, you'll pick that invitation up and help make Squeak better. At least that's how I judge if someone really loves Squeak - not whether he says it but whether he *does* something to improve it.
[1]http://squeakboard.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/a-new-community-development-mode...
Cheers, Â - Andreas
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
It was. In the past. But I don't live in the past. I live in the present. And in the present, Squeak has moved on. We're past that. We have a great system, a great community, a great contribution process. If you look at the last eight months we've had more contributions than in the previous five years together, both small and large. We have *serious* momentum. We have Etoys and Croquet/Cobalt moving back to Squeak. We'll be having the *second* release this year in three weeks we may even have a third release this year if the momentum keeps up.
In any case we're *way* past the issues you mention. Everyone who wants to help Squeak is welcome to contribute[1]. That includes you and Stef. You have standing invitations to join the Squeak core developers so if you have any interest in Squeak left, you'll pick that invitation up and help make Squeak better.
We are already helping squeak a lot. Now we have our vision for Pharo and we will continue it.
At least that's how I judge if someone really loves Squeak - not whether he says it but whether he *does* something to improve it.
You have love seasons and lovers attitude for each period of your life and I think that now we are in pharo of beaches and boats passing around :) Stef
On Apr 1, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
We are already helping squeak a lot. Now we have our vision for Pharo and we will continue it.
which does not preclude us from working together, of course. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
Hi andreas You could not resist....... and you got trapped to my eyes :). http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/2800000/Wolf-Eating-wolves-2812984-4... Stef PS: Marcus you are a bad guy, bad bad bad :) "Oh le vilain" (kid voice)
Hi, I just bumped into this. Probably this is intended somehow, but it does seem weird enough to ask â¦
(Object>> #hash) asString class
returns 'Text'.
I think this is historical. Methods *used* to return Strings, and the Browser highlighted the first line.
Than, when the possibility to have "Rich text" kind of methods (with bold, colors, links) added in Squeak, this was "implemented" by the "do the smallest change possible, we will rewrite everything anyway" strategy.
Never clean up! Never Refactor!
Wow, Marcus. Your hostility towards Squeak is seriously amazing. Even more so since CompiledMethod>>asString DOES NOT EXIST in Squeak. It's a Pharo method. Of course, it's Squeak's fault that in Pharo, and Pharo only, CompiledMethod>>asString returns a text.
Of course, like always, the "big rewrite from scratch" never happened. To the contrary, all the time more and more "do the smallest change possible" changes where introduced on top, up to the point that the whole system was just *bad*.
So what does that mean given that the method has a stamp of 'stephane.ducasse 8/9/2009 12:05'?
Cheers, - Andreas
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:11 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi andreas
You could not resist.......
and you got trapped to my eyes :).
http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/2800000/Wolf-Eating-wolves-2812984-4...
I was more thinking about this: The "etoy hater Brunnen" in Bern :-) Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
The "etoy hater Brunnen" in Bern :-)
Marcus
lol I always found this fountain amazing, nearly bad taste. To scare little kids, I went to see it with my sons but I'm sure that they did not remember. It would be fun to go with camille and explain him. He is at the right age for this kind of metaphor Stef
On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
The "etoy hater Brunnen" in Bern :-)
Marcus
lol I always found this fountain amazing, nearly bad taste. To scare little kids, I went to see it with my sons but I'm sure that they did not remember. It would be fun to go with camille and explain him. He is at the right age for this kind of metaphor
I don't think there is a consensus of the meaning behind... it's too old (1545), so nobody remembers why and what and how. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindlifresserbrunnen Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
participants (8)
-
Adrian Lienhard -
Andreas Raab -
Bert Freudenberg -
Igor Stasenko -
Marcus Denker -
merlyn＠stonehenge.com -
Niko Schwarz -
Stéphane Ducasse