[Pharo-project] Scat - Public Release and announcement
Hi list, Joan Güell and I have been working on Scat -the Scratch port to Pharo- quite a lot recently. We wanted to push it to a point where we could release the first reasonably working version, which we've just managed today. Please take a look at the release announcement<http://code.google.com/p/scat/wiki/PublicRelease> (which should be read in a bit of a humorous tone), in which we explain what's up with the project and what future is left for it. For the tl;dr version, please read: - Many things are working, many aren't, but the state of the project allows us to move into more interesting stuff based on the graphic programming metaphor. - Scat is a time-consuming, brain-smashing, life sucking-project. - We no longer will be maintaining this massive unmaintainable code. - Suddenly: free time for other projects! Cheers everyone! -- Bernat Romagosa.
Hi bernat Excellent! do you have code that we removed and changed that you would like to be in the system? Stef On Dec 12, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Bernat Romagosa wrote:
Hi list,
Joan Güell and I have been working on Scat -the Scratch port to Pharo- quite a lot recently. We wanted to push it to a point where we could release the first reasonably working version, which we've just managed today.
Please take a look at the release announcement (which should be read in a bit of a humorous tone), in which we explain what's up with the project and what future is left for it.
For the tl;dr version, please read: ⢠Many things are working, many aren't, but the state of the project allows us to move into more interesting stuff based on the graphic programming metaphor. ⢠Scat is a time-consuming, brain-smashing, life sucking-project. ⢠We no longer will be maintaining this massive unmaintainable code. ⢠Suddenly: free time for other projects! Cheers everyone!
-- Bernat Romagosa.
That's pretty cool! Spotted in the announcement:
A project we've been longing to start for a while is a music live-coding environment based solely on engaging blocks of different kinds, which the current working code in Scat should let us build without too much hassle!
Tell us more :)
2011/12/13 Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com>:
Hi list,
Joan Güell and I have been working on Scat -the Scratch port to Pharo- quite a lot recently. We wanted to push it to a point where we could release the first reasonably working version, which we've just managed today.
Great work Joan & Bernat !
Please take a look at the release announcement (which should be read in a bit of a humorous tone), in which we explain what's up with the project and what future is left for it.
For the tl;dr version, please read:
Many things are working, many aren't, but the state of the project allows us to move into more interesting stuff based on the graphic programming metaphor. Scat is a time-consuming, brain-smashing, life sucking-project. We no longer will be maintaining this massive unmaintainable code. Suddenly: free time for other projects!
Why do you say that you will not maintain the project anymore ? Do you mean this is better to rebuild something better ? Any news from Scratch about a relicensing of the core ? Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/
Hi all! Stef, thanks a lot! Actually we've always tried to rather adapt the Scratch code to conform to Pharo, better than the other way around. In some cases this wasn't possible, but we've tried to keep Scat from touching core Pharo code as much as possible. Francois, check out this shot for a preview of what our idea is (not functional at all, just a sketch!) http://i.imgur.com/ApJGd.png Serge, the thing is that the code in Scratch is terribly bad... maintaining it is close to impossible. The project was coded by several different students with different coding styles and barely any Smalltalk experience. They took advantage of bugs in the old Squeak version used to build Scratch, and mixed view and controllers so hard one can barely distinguish them at all. We've made our best to get what we could to work in Pharo, but we never tried to make the code better. What we mean when we say we will not maintain it anymore is that we are not going to perform major fixes to the code any further. We will not waste more time trying to make importing/exporting Scratch files better, or rack our brains to get the sound recorder to work. But if somebody is using the Scat code for some project and needs a small fix which we can help with, we will of course offer our help! After all this time we think the only good approach to enhance the code in Scratch would be to erase it all, rethink it all over and do it right from the beginning, which is the approach the BYOB guys are taking in Berkeley with their Snap project, and the results are so far pretty impressive: http://chirp.scratchr.org/dl/experimental/JsMorphic/nasciturus.html So, what are we to do with all the time and effort we put into Scat? Well, we do have a lot of useful stuff ported to Pharo! We can capture webcam images, we have a graphic block execution engine, a paint editor, a sound engine, etc. So not all efforts have been in vain! Cheers! 2011/12/13 Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich@gmail.com>
2011/12/13 Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com>:
Hi list,
Joan Güell and I have been working on Scat -the Scratch port to Pharo- quite a lot recently. We wanted to push it to a point where we could release the first reasonably working version, which we've just managed today.
Great work Joan & Bernat !
Please take a look at the release announcement (which should be read in a bit of a humorous tone), in which we explain what's up with the project and what future is left for it.
For the tl;dr version, please read:
Many things are working, many aren't, but the state of the project allows us to move into more interesting stuff based on the graphic programming metaphor. Scat is a time-consuming, brain-smashing, life sucking-project. We no longer will be maintaining this massive unmaintainable code. Suddenly: free time for other projects!
Why do you say that you will not maintain the project anymore ? Do you mean this is better to rebuild something better ?
Any news from Scratch about a relicensing of the core ?
Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/
-- Bernat Romagosa.
2011/12/13 Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@gmail.com>
Hi all!
Stef, thanks a lot! Actually we've always tried to rather adapt the Scratch code to conform to Pharo, better than the other way around. In some cases this wasn't possible, but we've tried to keep Scat from touching core Pharo code as much as possible.
Francois, check out this shot for a preview of what our idea is (not functional at all, just a sketch!) http://i.imgur.com/ApJGd.png
Serge, the thing is that the code in Scratch is terribly bad... maintaining it is close to impossible. The project was coded by several different students with different coding styles and barely any Smalltalk experience. They took advantage of bugs in the old Squeak version used to build Scratch, and mixed view and controllers so hard one can barely distinguish them at all. We've made our best to get what we could to work in Pharo, but we never tried to make the code better.
You are definitively right Bernat, this is a good example that even in Smalltalk, this is possible to write nightmare code. As they planned to do the next version in flash, i guess they will even worst ;-) Thank you your good work ! -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/
Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@...> writes:
Hi list,
Joan Güell and I have been working on Scat -the Scratch port to Pharo- quite a
lot recently. We wanted to push it to a point where we could release the first reasonably working version, which we've just managed today.
Please take a look at the release announcement (which should be read in a bit
of a humorous tone), in which we explain what's up with the project and what future is left for it.
For the tl;dr version, please read:
Many things are working, many aren't, but the state of the project allows us
to move into more interesting stuff based on the graphic programming metaphor.
Scat is a time-consuming, brain-smashing, life sucking-project. We no longer will be maintaining this massive unmaintainable code. Suddenly: free time for other projects!
Cheers everyone!
-- Bernat Romagosa.
I do not wish to take over the Scat project but I am interested in helping bringing it forward. My interest is in only a portion of Scat. As an example of what I want to do consider the "Enchanting" project that uses Scratch to program the Legos Mindstorms toy robot. Enchanting uses a major portion of Scratch but some of the interface is replaced by the interface needed by Enchanting. I am interested in refactoring Scratch (now Scat) so that projects such as Enchanting can use the lower level stuff it needs but add its own stuff, particularly the GUI part. This is what I will need to do for the projects, not add things on top of Scratch (Scat) but on top of (say) 80% of Scat. I have my own projects that I want to do someday that would similarly be built on top of a portion of Scat. Ideally I would like someone or some group to take over Scat who could oversee work that we could agree that I can do and ideally that work would relate to the part of Scat I am interested in. So can you place my name as a contact person by anyone taking over Scat. Lastly I encourage changing the name of Scat. Sincerely, Ralph Boland
Hi Ralph, I'm sorry I took so long to answer, we've been quite busy here... If you decide to work on top of what's already been ported, you can rely on us for any questions you may have, no worries. If you go for the original Scratch code, I guess we could also help you on portability and architecture-related questions. We know the name is a bit unfortunate... it was chosen after scat singing<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scat_singing> without being aware the word had other not-so-educational meanings. Anyway, any trouble you may have understanding the code, you can use our mailing list at scat-project@googlegroups.com to communicate with us and we'll gladly try to help you, although I have to admit there are parts of the code that we don't even begin to understand and probably not even their author does anymore... Good luck! Bernat. 2011/12/22 Ralph Boland <rpboland@gmail.com>
Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca@...> writes:
Hi list,
Joan Güell and I have been working on Scat -the Scratch port to
Pharo- quite a lot recently. We wanted to push it to a point where we could release the first reasonably working version, which we've just managed today.
Please take a look at the release announcement (which should be read in
a bit of a humorous tone), in which we explain what's up with the project and what future is left for it.
For the tl;dr version, please read:
Many things are working, many aren't, but the state of the project
allows us to move into more interesting stuff based on the graphic programming metaphor.
Scat is a time-consuming, brain-smashing, life sucking-project. We no longer will be maintaining this massive unmaintainable code. Suddenly: free time for other projects!
Cheers everyone!
-- Bernat Romagosa.
I do not wish to take over the Scat project but I am interested in helping bringing it forward. My interest is in only a portion of Scat. As an example of what I want to do consider the "Enchanting" project that uses Scratch to program the Legos Mindstorms toy robot. Enchanting uses a major portion of Scratch but some of the interface is replaced by the interface needed by Enchanting. I am interested in refactoring Scratch (now Scat) so that projects such as Enchanting can use the lower level stuff it needs but add its own stuff, particularly the GUI part. This is what I will need to do for the projects, not add things on top of Scratch (Scat) but on top of (say) 80% of Scat. I have my own projects that I want to do someday that would similarly be built on top of a portion of Scat.
Ideally I would like someone or some group to take over Scat who could oversee work that we could agree that I can do and ideally that work would relate to the part of Scat I am interested in.
So can you place my name as a contact person by anyone taking over Scat.
Lastly I encourage changing the name of Scat.
Sincerely,
Ralph Boland
-- Bernat Romagosa.
participants (5)
-
Bernat Romagosa -
Francois Stephany -
Ralph Boland -
Serge Stinckwich -
Stéphane Ducasse