[Pharo-project] gtinspector
Hi, Just out of curiosity: Does any of you use the GTInspector? For those that wonder what that is, here is a demo: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/glamorous-inspector-for-smalltalk This is available in any recent Moose image mapped as Explorer (CMD+I). You can load it in a Pharo 1.3 image by: Gofer new squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamoroust'; load.(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGlamoroust) loadDefault.(Smalltalk at: #GTInspector) registerToolsOn: Smalltalk tools. Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
Just out of curiosity: Does any of you use the GTInspector?
For those that wonder what that is, here is a demo: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/glamorous-inspector-for-smalltalk
I used to use it for my images. And it was pretty nice. Problem was the amount of dependencies it had, the time it took me to install it, and moreover, that since it depends on several dependencies it was always complicated to successfully install it. Apart from that, I really like it.
This is available in any recent Moose image mapped as Explorer (CMD+I).
You can load it in a Pharo 1.3 image by: Gofer new squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamoroust'; load.(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGlamoroust) loadDefault.(Smalltalk at: #GTInspector) registerToolsOn: Smalltalk tools.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Hi, On 21 Dec 2011, at 12:15, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote: Hi,
Just out of curiosity: Does any of you use the GTInspector?
I used to use it for my images. And it was pretty nice. Problem was the amount of dependencies it had, the time it took me to install it, and moreover, that since it depends on several dependencies it was always complicated to successfully install it. Apart from that, I really like it.
Thanks. What do you mean by complicated to install it? Where did you encounter problems? Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Speaking louder won't make the point worthier."
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
On 21 Dec 2011, at 12:15, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>
wrote:
Hi,
Just out of curiosity: Does any of you use the GTInspector?
I used to use it for my images. And it was pretty nice. Problem was the amount of dependencies it had, the time it took me to install it, and moreover, that since it depends on several dependencies it was always complicated to successfully install it. Apart from that, I really like it.
Thanks. What do you mean by complicated to install it?
That each time I tried I found a problem. I don't remember exactly now. First, it was a problem with RB (which was used from Grease I think) which was not even loading in the image. Then it was the Keymappings which was broken and annoying ;) I like the GTInspector and I like Glamour and all its related tools, but I always wondered the same: isn't there a way to use Glamour just for the development part? What I mean is that in this example of the GTInspector, it would be nice if you can generate from Glamour a plain standalone Morphic UI that we can just load. Say I have developed using glamour and all its nice features and then as an output I get a running morphic. Then of course, there will be people who will always want the glamour version because they change the code or whatever. Anyway, does it sound crazy to have a way to "deploy" Glamour? Where did you encounter problems?
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Speaking louder won't make the point worthier."
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Hi, On 22 Dec 2011, at 10:05, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote: Hi,
On 21 Dec 2011, at 12:15, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote: Hi,
Just out of curiosity: Does any of you use the GTInspector?
I used to use it for my images. And it was pretty nice. Problem was the amount of dependencies it had, the time it took me to install it, and moreover, that since it depends on several dependencies it was always complicated to successfully install it. Apart from that, I really like it.
Thanks. What do you mean by complicated to install it?
That each time I tried I found a problem. I don't remember exactly now. First, it was a problem with RB (which was used from Grease I think) which was not even loading in the image. Then it was the Keymappings which was broken and annoying ;)
These are all fixed now. Actually, these issues got fixed within max 1 day from when they got detected. The Glamorous Toolkit is used in all Moose builds, so there is a high incentive for us to fix those problems.
I like the GTInspector and I like Glamour and all its related tools, but I always wondered the same: isn't there a way to use Glamour just for the development part? What I mean is that in this example of the GTInspector, it would be nice if you can generate from Glamour a plain standalone Morphic UI that we can just load. Say I have developed using glamour and all its nice features and then as an output I get a running morphic. Then of course, there will be people who will always want the glamour version because they change the code or whatever. Anyway, does it sound crazy to have a way to "deploy" Glamour?
I do not see how it would be possible to do that. Glamour is a runtime engine, and as a consequence it is required to run the browser :). Just to clarify: Most of the Glamour dependencies that are loaded by default are due to extra support like EyeSee, Mondrian and Magritte. If people do not want these, they do not have to be loaded. For example, to load just the basic Glamour, you can load it like: (ConfigurationOfGlamour project version: 'default') load: {'Core'. 'Morphic'} Cheers, Doru
Where did you encounter problems?
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Speaking louder won't make the point worthier."
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Don't give to get. Just give."
Just to clarify: Most of the Glamour dependencies that are loaded by default are due to extra support like EyeSee, Mondrian and Magritte. If people do not want these, they do not have to be loaded. For example, to load just the basic Glamour, you can load it like: (ConfigurationOfGlamour project version: 'default') load: {'Core'. 'Morphic'}
The problem of dependencies is not their presence, but the time taken to load them. Removing EyeSee, Mondrian and Magritte from Glamour will not make Glamour better. However, having a smart cache mechanism on top of Metacello will definitely make all us happy. Having one single .mcz file to load instead for the whole version would be great. This should not be done by removing dependencies. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>wrote:
Just to clarify: Most of the Glamour dependencies that are loaded by default are due to extra support like EyeSee, Mondrian and Magritte. If people do not want these, they do not have to be loaded. For example, to load just the basic Glamour, you can load it like: (ConfigurationOfGlamour project version: 'default') load: {'Core'. 'Morphic'}
The problem of dependencies is not their presence, but the time taken to load them. Removing EyeSee, Mondrian and Magritte from Glamour will not make Glamour better. However, having a smart cache mechanism on top of Metacello will definitely make all us happy.
Having one single .mcz file to load instead for the whole version would be great. This should not be done by removing dependencies.
I don't agree. If I just want to install GTInspector, why should I download lots of dependencies which actually are NOT dependencies?? I just want to download GTInspector and only its REAL dependencies, that is, the dependencies I need to make it work. Even if the loading would be fast, I DON'T WANT dependencies that are not dependencies. At least in this scenario. Some may want them, some may not. So, having a way to load GTInspector and only its real dependencies is something I would appreciate. If only the speed were the problem, I can load whole moose in something like 10 seconds using fuel.
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
I don't agree. If I just want to install GTInspector, why should I download lots of dependencies which actually are NOT dependencies?? I just want to download GTInspector and only its REAL dependencies, that is, the dependencies I need to make it work. Even if the loading would be fast, I DON'T WANT dependencies that are not dependencies. At least in this scenario. Some may want them, some may not. So, having a way to load GTInspector and only its real dependencies is something I would appreciate. If only the speed were the problem, I can load whole moose in something like 10 seconds using fuel.
I am probably less sensible on this issue. On my computer I have thousands of files that I do not know what they are useful for. I simply do not look at them :-) Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>wrote:
I don't agree. If I just want to install GTInspector, why should I download lots of dependencies which actually are NOT dependencies?? I just want to download GTInspector and only its REAL dependencies, that is, the dependencies I need to make it work. Even if the loading would be fast, I DON'T WANT dependencies that are not dependencies. At least in this scenario. Some may want them, some may not. So, having a way to load GTInspector and only its real dependencies is something I would appreciate. If only the speed were the problem, I can load whole moose in something like 10 seconds using fuel.
I am probably less sensible on this issue. On my computer I have thousands of files that I do not know what they are useful for. I simply do not look at them :-)
But: - you don't search senders, implementors, browser, do refactorings, etc in your machine. Just for a simple inspector I end up with my image full of stuff which I don't usually want (if I do want, then I would explicitly load the rest). - it doesn't fail when there are problems with their dependencies (as it happens with Moose when having lots of dependencies) - you do not install the same software that much. I do. I build new images all the time. All in all, what I want to say is that if there are users (like me) which would like to load GTInspector only load the needed dependencies, then it would be good if you can provide them. Cheers
Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Mariano Martinez Peck wrote
If I just want to install GTInspector
For now (works in 1.3)... Gofer new squeaksource: 'Glamour'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamour'; load. (ConfigurationOfGlamour project version: 'default') load: {'Core'. 'Morphic'}. Gofer new squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; package: 'GT-Inspector'; load. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gtinspector-tp4220848p4229945.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Thanks Sean. That's much more reasonable :) So ... I will put back GTInspector to my images by loading exactly that. On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>wrote:
Mariano Martinez Peck wrote
If I just want to install GTInspector
For now (works in 1.3)... Gofer new squeaksource: 'Glamour'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamour'; load. (ConfigurationOfGlamour project version: 'default') load: {'Core'. 'Morphic'}. Gofer new squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; package: 'GT-Inspector'; load.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gtinspector-tp4220848p4229945.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Hi. Now I found a bug. I open the GTInspector in Smalltalk and then when I click in the line of 'globals' I have the attached DNU. I am using latest glamour. Cheers On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:21 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Sean. That's much more reasonable :) So ... I will put back GTInspector to my images by loading exactly that.
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>wrote:
Mariano Martinez Peck wrote
If I just want to install GTInspector
For now (works in 1.3)... Gofer new squeaksource: 'Glamour'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamour'; load. (ConfigurationOfGlamour project version: 'default') load: {'Core'. 'Morphic'}. Gofer new squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; package: 'GT-Inspector'; load.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gtinspector-tp4220848p4229945.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Hi, I cannot reproduce this on Pharo 1.3. Could you provide more details? Cheers, Doru On 25 Dec 2011, at 15:46, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi. Now I found a bug. I open the GTInspector in Smalltalk and then when I click in the line of 'globals' I have the attached DNU. I am using latest glamour.
Cheers
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:21 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks Sean. That's much more reasonable :) So ... I will put back GTInspector to my images by loading exactly that.
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
Mariano Martinez Peck wrote
If I just want to install GTInspector
For now (works in 1.3)... Gofer new squeaksource: 'Glamour'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamour'; load. (ConfigurationOfGlamour project version: 'default') load: {'Core'. 'Morphic'}. Gofer new squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; package: 'GT-Inspector'; load.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gtinspector-tp4220848p4229945.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
<PharoDebug.log>
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Obvious things are difficult to teach."
Hi Tudor. I re-tested everything in a clean image and now it does not happen. Sorry. Merry Christmas!! On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
I cannot reproduce this on Pharo 1.3.
Could you provide more details?
Cheers, Doru
On 25 Dec 2011, at 15:46, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi. Now I found a bug. I open the GTInspector in Smalltalk and then when I click in the line of 'globals' I have the attached DNU. I am using latest glamour.
Cheers
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:21 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks Sean. That's much more reasonable :) So ... I will put back GTInspector to my images by loading exactly that.
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Sean P. DeNigris < sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
Mariano Martinez Peck wrote
If I just want to install GTInspector
For now (works in 1.3)... Gofer new squeaksource: 'Glamour'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamour'; load. (ConfigurationOfGlamour project version: 'default') load: {'Core'. 'Morphic'}. Gofer new squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; package: 'GT-Inspector'; load.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gtinspector-tp4220848p4229945.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
<PharoDebug.log>
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Obvious things are difficult to teach."
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Tudor Girba-2 wrote
You can load it in a Pharo 1.3 image by...
Is everything loaded by that command necessary for Glamour and its toolkit? e.g. Mondrian, EyeSee, Magritte -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gtinspector-tp4220848p4226991.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi, Yes. It will load: Glamour (which loads Mondrian, EyeSee, Magritte and some of its unnecessary dependencies :)), and the Glamorous Toolkit itself which also depends on RPackage so that one will be loaded as well. Cheers, Doru On 23 Dec 2011, at 00:30, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
Tudor Girba-2 wrote
You can load it in a Pharo 1.3 image by...
Is everything loaded by that command necessary for Glamour and its toolkit? e.g. Mondrian, EyeSee, Magritte
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gtinspector-tp4220848p4226991.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Yesterday is a fact. Tomorrow is a possibility. Today is a challenge."
Tudor Girba-2 wrote
Yes. It will load: Glamour (which loads Mondrian, EyeSee, Magritte and some of its unnecessary dependencies :))
Is it possible to load the toolkit on top of basic Glamour (w/o Mondrian, EyeSee, Magritte...)? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gtinspector-tp4220848p4228581.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi, Yes, you can. It's just that the configuration of Glamoroust is not made for that. At this moment, the only way to do it is by loading the package: Gofer new squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; package: 'GT-Inspector'; load. Cheers, Doru On 23 Dec 2011, at 14:27, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
Tudor Girba-2 wrote
Yes. It will load: Glamour (which loads Mondrian, EyeSee, Magritte and some of its unnecessary dependencies :))
Is it possible to load the toolkit on top of basic Glamour (w/o Mondrian, EyeSee, Magritte...)?
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gtinspector-tp4220848p4228581.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com "We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
participants (4)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Tudor Girba