Well technically you cannot stop people from using the github issue tracker for reporting bugs and by default if you are a contributor to a repo you will be alerted via email of new issues or replies to existing github issues. Both github and forgbuz issue tracker can happily coexist. There will be also little need create same issues on both githyb and fogbuz because there will be little benefit , both are quite efficient on what they do , I see little reason not to allow both ways of reporting bugs. Github has a bit the edge here because of how it handles pull requests which it separates from issues and it allows you to start discussions on top of the code to be merged etc. Again this is a technical detail, the important thing is to report bugs and to fix them , how you do it is a lesser concern. Github has also other advantages that I am not so familiar , especially with CI. Right now CI for Pharo is separate , this is also can be brought to gitgub in some way without actually moving the CI and have Github as a main hub for commits, issue reporting, CI discussions and free wiki and a static website (maybe as a more permanent version of the wiki). https://github.com/marketplace/category/continuous-integration Github is actually extremely flexible. Gitlab is even more so , cause its full open source and allow you to host it on your own servers and you do not need to relearn what you learned with Github as it follows a very similar interface. Gitlab allows to move repos from github and will copy not just the code but also issues etc. So that is also a good solution for some people who may way to have Pharo dev on their own server and more control of it. A rather new feature for Github is also projects, a way to visualise todo lists, roadmaps, pull requests etc https://help.github.com/articles/about-project-boards/ It also offers way to visualise other things like commits, issues etc and last but not least it can host downloads of releases so there is a convenient and obvious way to find the latest but also previous versions of pharo with Github releases https://help.github.com/articles/creating-releases/ On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 7:51 PM Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:

Guillermo Polito wrote

...

Sadly, this just works for the integration of commits into the main branches, not pull requests. For pull request integration we will probably need a home made solution.

Now that we are moving development to GH, has there been any discussion of moving issue tracking there as well?

----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Github-and-Fogbugz-integration-tp4960676p4962533.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 10:32 PM Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:

...

I see little reason not to allow both ways of reporting bugs. It seems that the need to create an account in FB to even view/search issues has been a big barrier to new(er) would-be contributors. I expect this difficulty would be multiplied since, in the process of reporting a bug on GH, they would not be able to easily determine if it had already been opened on FB

Tons of issues are reported in GH that are closed minutes as the issue they report does not even exist. Closing an issue is just a matter of pressing a button and you can always redirect the user to the issue in FB. Frankly I am no fan of FB, I find Github interface less powerful but far simpler and better designed. What annoyed me is that fogbuz did not even subscribed me to my own issues (issues I created) . I did not go back because I thought people ignored me , then one day I decided to create a new bug report and found out that people have replied almost immediately to my old ones. Then I realised that Fogbuz did not alert me through email , then I dig up its settings and found the way enable email alerts. Suffice to say I was not very happy with this. I prefer GH also because I have already been using it with Python way before I was introduced into Pharo, so its not just newcomer who will prefer GH , I think the vast majority of people coming from other languages will do too. GH is almost a monopoly at this point. Pretty much every one says moving to git and github will be costly , like Stef just did. Blender made the move I think a year ago, so much noise in the mailing list whether its really worth it moving from svn to git more than 1 million line of code and more than a decade of commits. Later admitted it was far easier than they expected. Point is that people are lazy, we are just are, and we like to keep doing things we are familiar with because learning is hard. Problem is not learning is far more costly. I have been a defender of git and github in the pharo mailing lists for years now even though many resisted me and tried to convince me how Pharo and git will never properly work and here we are, not regretting a second of it and I am sure that other people who were supportive too dont either. But I never forced my opinion on anyone and I wont now. I am just saying , if I have the choice between github and fogbuz, for me its github all the way. Likewise if its iceberger vs gitup , gitup all the way. On the other hand , its great to live in a time having so many choices ;)

Not Tiobe Index, Tiobe is based more on google search with the name of the language followed with the word "programming". Which is one of the reason its critics say its not reliable. As if there is a reliable way to measure popularity. The only popularity index I am familiar with that was using mainly github was poplang, but it is no longer maintained and I do not think it was based on the github issues. Of course using Github as a measure for a language popularity is a really a bad idea because Github is mainly for open source projects which means its biased towards languages that have more active open source community. Because by very far web dev has the most active open source community Javascript comes No1. Of course in reality Javascript is nowhere near the most popular language if you take into the consideration that Java dominates business and Android software and especially mobile software is extremely active. Obviously more closed source source orientated languages like C# and C++ take a huge hit even though they dominate the Windows platform while desktop still takes at least one third of the market. In the gaming world which is still a very profitable and active part of the software industry web based language are pretty much non existent and its pretty much monopolised by C/C++/C# with Java trailing way way behind, even though Java dominates on Android ultility software neither Unity or Unreal use it, both game engines are the bread and butter of game devs. In sort the language popularity field is a huge pile of mess because its widely fluctuates depending on the area and subject matter and the criteria Poplang used to be an excellent example of this http://65.39.133.14/ But is abandoned now. On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 3:41 AM Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:

I also wonder when they measure the popularity of a language/community whether GitHub issues is a measure (I suspect it is), so it may be advantageous to show activity particularly for a smaller community.

Like others, I'm not a big fan of fogbugz (never understood why Joel is considered a god), but it's ok, and it's served its purpose. I'd seriously switching.

I Tim

Sent from my iPhone

On 19 Aug 2017, at 21:40, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 10:32 PM Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:

...

...

I see little reason not to allow both ways of reporting bugs. It seems that the need to create an account in FB to even view/search issues has been a big barrier to new(er) would-be contributors. I expect this difficulty would be multiplied since, in the process of reporting a bug on GH, they would not be able to easily determine if it had already been opened on FB

Tons of issues are reported in GH that are closed minutes as the issue they report does not even exist. Closing an issue is just a matter of pressing a button and you can always redirect the user to the issue in FB.

Frankly I am no fan of FB, I find Github interface less powerful but far simpler and better designed. What annoyed me is that fogbuz did not even subscribed me to my own issues (issues I created) . I did not go back because I thought people ignored me , then one day I decided to create a new bug report and found out that people have replied almost immediately to my old ones. Then I realised that Fogbuz did not alert me through email , then I dig up its settings and found the way enable email alerts. Suffice to say I was not very happy with this.

I prefer GH also because I have already been using it with Python way before I was introduced into Pharo, so its not just newcomer who will prefer GH , I think the vast majority of people coming from other languages will do too. GH is almost a monopoly at this point.

Pretty much every one says moving to git and github will be costly , like Stef just did. Blender made the move I think a year ago, so much noise in the mailing list whether its really worth it moving from svn to git more than 1 million line of code and more than a decade of commits. Later admitted it was far easier than they expected.

Point is that people are lazy, we are just are, and we like to keep doing things we are familiar with because learning is hard. Problem is not learning is far more costly.

I have been a defender of git and github in the pharo mailing lists for years now even though many resisted me and tried to convince me how Pharo and git will never properly work and here we are, not regretting a second of it and I am sure that other people who were supportive too dont either.

But I never forced my opinion on anyone and I wont now. I am just saying , if I have the choice between github and fogbuz, for me its github all the way. Likewise if its iceberger vs gitup , gitup all the way.

On the other hand , its great to live in a time having so many choices ;)

Useless piece of info , I think I am the first person to actually create a github issue for Pharo. It was not for pharo code it was for pharo documentation https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample/issues/1 Since then not only UPBE but also other pharo doc github repos have been using github issues , so we already doing that and none has blamed me so far :D On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 10:00 PM Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi sean

I prefer to continue to use fogbugz. Changing is really costly.

Stef

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:

...

Guillermo Polito wrote

...

Sadly, this just works for the integration of commits into the main branches, not pull requests. For pull request integration we will probably need a home made solution.

Now that we are moving development to GH, has there been any discussion of moving issue tracking there as well?

----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Github-and-Fogbugz-integration-tp4960676p4962533.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.